Buddy breathing

[Xanthro]

I did my rescue course with the girlfriend of the owner of a 5 star PADI center. She dived almost everyday and had 100's of dives within the last few months. However, when we came to the buddy breathing review in about 5 meters of water she panicked completely and bolted for the surface.

That is a very good example for not requiring buddy breathing. Here, you have an experienced diver, who in a practice session still panics. If buddy breathing really needs to be practiced continually, it won't be useful to a large number of OW divers, who don't practice safety skills very often.

The most compelling argument I've seen for requiring buddy breathing is that the OOA diver is already next to you having tried your secondary, so what do you do. That divers is 99.9% likely to try and take the primary. How does a basic OW diver prevent that?

I don't think that using people on this board is a good example. We are here because we enjoy diving more than the average diver. I personally use my octo on every dive at some point. Usually, while at the surface after the safety stop, but if it comes lose on the dive, I'll breath it just to ensure it is working correctly. I also carry a pony now. The odds of another diver needing to buddy breath with me are pretty remote, and if they needed to, I could do it.

The question is how useful is the skill for those who don't constantly think about how to react if things go wrong. If a person with 100s of recent dives panics in training, imagine how much worse it can be for an inexperienced person under a real OOA situation.

Xanthro

 

[Xanthro]

I wonder if the Aids scare in the mid 1980s had any affect on buddy breathing? Anyone know?

It could be an overreaction to the possiblity of spreading the virus lead to reducing the interchange of mouth pieces. Not that you could catch Aids in this manner, but people didn't know that at the time.

Xanthro

 

[ScubaFreak]

Response number #4

i'd expect a few replies to this post

Told ye

 

[Kim]

That is a very good example for not requiring buddy breathing. Here, you have an experienced diver, who in a practice session still panics. If buddy breathing really needs to be practiced continually, it won't be useful to a large number of OW divers, who don't practice safety skills very often.

I would have thought that it makes the case for practice - rather than not having the skill to start with. The inexperienced divers who don't even try to practice essential things - like how to react to an OOA situation - probably have a very reduced survival chance to begin with.

I wonder if the Aids scare in the mid 1980s had any affect on buddy breathing?

That thought also crossed my mind.

 

[Daryl Morse]

No amount of training and practice will ever guarantee a person will not panic. It may make it less likely, but even a Navy SEAL could freeze up under fire (not that any would ever admit this ). Panic is something that cannot be predicted. That's why it's so dangerous. Turning the valve off and breathing feels a lot like an OOA. The two agencies I teach for both require removal and replacement at depth. My students currently practice it in almost 20'.

It's true that no amount of training will guarantee that someone won't panic in an unexpected situation. However, having no training at all likely will guarantee panic in an unexpected situation. That's why I think the idea of not training buddy breathing is a bad idea.

We practiced "OOA" by having the instructor turn the valve off. Two or three breaths and the air is gone. I have to think that OOA feels much different in a more realistic situation. I'd like to know what it feels like and I'd be willing to try it so I know, obviously as long as I'm with a competent instructor/DM.

We practiced removal and replacement at the bottom of the pool, and at the surface in the ocean. I dive dry with an integrated weight BCD. I'm sure it would be more challenging to do a re & re at depth in a drysuit than it was in the pool.

We didn't practice dealing with a stuck inflator. Why not? Because it wouldn't be fun? Personally, I'd rather experience these things so I know in advance that I can deal with them.

 

[MikeFerrara]

That is a very good example for not requiring buddy breathing. Here, you have an experienced diver, who in a practice session still panics. If buddy breathing really needs to be practiced continually, it won't be useful to a large number of OW divers, who don't practice safety skills very often.

BB doesn't need to be practiced any more often than any other skill. If a diver isn't going to stay proficient that's their business but I'm not going to let that lower the level of training that other divers get. there's way too much setting the bar for the lwest common denominator. All that does is insure that every one is a lousy diver rather than those who choose to be.

I suppose that's the same reason that they don't bother to teach the other important skills that are typically left out or just glossed over...they won't be any good anyway right?

The most compelling argument I've seen for requiring buddy breathing is that the OOA diver is already next to you having tried your secondary, so what do you do. That divers is 99.9% likely to try and take the primary. How does a basic OW diver prevent that?

Prevent? Best to learn to cope. These are the kinds of things that happen once in a while underwater. If a diver doesn't feel prepared to cope then for their sake and those around them, it might be best that they find some other hobby.

The question is how useful is the skill for those who don't constantly think about how to react if things go wrong. If a person with 100s of recent dives panics in training, imagine how much worse it can be for an inexperienced person under a real OOA situation.

Xanthro

Some one who isn't constantly thinking about what can go wrong and how to react or prevent it is an accident waiting to happen in the first place.

As far as a diver with hundreds of dives panicing...I've seen lots of divers panic but I haven't ever seen a good diver panic. Never once have I seen a diver who is proficient and comfortable with basic skills even come close to panic. They just don't have a reason to. They don't get feeling out of control because they never are. Oh...they could because every one has a point at which they'll panic but proficient divers rarely hit that point under normal diving conditions...very rarely. The more skilled a diver is the further out their panic point gets.

 

[GDI]

I wonder if the Aids scare in the mid 1980s had any affect on buddy breathing? Anyone know?

It could be an overreaction to the possiblity of spreading the virus lead to reducing the interchange of mouth pieces. Not that you could catch Aids in this manner, but people didn't know that at the time.

Xanthro

I had people after the SARS outbreak worry about that. And it is natural to do so. But you can still train around that and get the message accross

 

[GDI]

Just a thought from one of the other threads Would you consider breathing from your BCD Inflator. Heres what I posted: From the DIR Section: Buddy Breathing and GUE

1. BB.
I would think that a GUE diver would seek out the closes air supply to him that he could get. Granted that he would most likely dive with only another DIR diver so this should not be a problem. However that may not always be the case such as on vacation, in which case he would need to share air with whatever system the donating diver has. If it is not taught at their basic level then they too are doing their students a disservice. the very essence of their training is that all divers are equiped the same and in the same way. IMO

2, Breathing from the inflator of your BCD is really not that hard. It may not be the most practical way but then any way that would get you back to the surface safely and still breathing is better than talking to St Pete at the Pearly Gates.

Start by swimming up, Using your inflator exhale as you would doing a CESA through the inflator mouth piece. As you need to breath, depress the inflator button drawing air from the BCD, Remember this is air from your tank and boyles law of expanding gas will work for you as well, Release the button and Continue to exhale again as you would for the CESA through the inflator mouth piece. Repeat this technique until you kick your way back to the surface. At the surface keep yourself afloat by kicking until you can re-inflate your bcd orally to achieve positive buoyancy then relax and count your blessings.Thank you LORD Thank you LORD Thank you LORD Thank you LORD Thank you LORD.....

 

[Xanthro]

Just a thought from one of the other threads Would you consider breathing from your BCD Inflator. Heres what I posted: From the DIR Section: Buddy Breathing and GUE

1. BB.
I would think that a GUE diver would seek out the closes air supply to him that he could get. Granted that he would most likely dive with only another DIR diver so this should not be a problem. However that may not always be the case such as on vacation, in which case he would need to share air with whatever system the donating diver has. If it is not taught at their basic level then they too are doing their students a disservice. the very essence of their training is that all divers are equiped the same and in the same way. IMO

2, Breathing from the inflator of your BCD is really not that hard. It may not be the most practical way but then any way that would get you back to the surface safely and still breathing is better than talking to St Pete at the Pearly Gates.

Start by swimming up, Using your inflator exhale as you would doing a CESA through the inflator mouth piece. As you need to breath, depress the inflator button drawing air from the BCD, Remember this is air from your tank and boyles law of expanding gas will work for you as well, Release the button and Continue to exhale again as you would for the CESA through the inflator mouth piece. Repeat this technique until you kick your way back to the surface. At the surface keep yourself afloat by kicking until you can re-inflate your bcd orally to achieve positive buoyancy then relax and count your blessings.Thank you LORD Thank you LORD Thank you LORD Thank you LORD Thank you LORD.....

If your low pressure inflator is working, why would you have to rebreath the air from your BCD?

Simply press the inflator and deflator button at the same time, and fresh air will be available. You'll may have to sip the air like a free flowing reg, but that is safer on your lungs than breathing air that has been in your BCD.

Xanthro

 

[GreenDiverDown]

If your low pressure inflator is working, why would you have to rebreath the air from your BCD?

Simply press the inflator and deflator button at the same time, and fresh air will be available. You'll may have to sip the air like a free flowing reg, but that is safer on your lungs than breathing air that has been in your BCD.

Xanthro

1.He's not re-breathing...he does not exhale into the BC...he only inhales.
2.He's out of air...he won't get any by pressing the inflator button...he is pressing the deflator button. He is getting air that already is in the BC...well...if there was air in the bladder when he went OOA in the cylinder.
3.There is nothing wrong with the air in the bladder...it's the same air that was in the cylinder...it doesn't go 'stale'.

It is not a technique that I would recommend. Remember...As you ascend...doing a CESA...if you need to get a breath you probably will get a little from your cylinder as the ambient pressure decreases.

There is another skill where you press both the inflator and deflator buttons to get air...but that's another deal...for a different problem...