Buying first computer Suunto Zoop, Cressi Giotto, or Oceanic Geo 2.0 ?

[outofofficebrb]

I understand that @ScubaJill is happy with her computer and recommended it, but given the description of the circumstances, it sounds like the computer is requesting extended time at a certain depth as a function of a particular dive time and depth. This is characteristic of deco time even though the computer does not display "deco". It may be not perceived as deco because it is not defined as such in the manual but in execution, that is what it sounds like.

Out of curiosity, what were your dive circumstances in Cozumel that created this limitation that you did not experience in other diving? Did you have a back to back, repetitive diving? I dived a Suunto primary and backup for about 130 dives and often did 4-5 dives a day for 7 days at a time for a 2-3 week trip. By and large, many consider the Suuntos as being quite conservative and even then, I did not experience any problems. I've moved onto Shearwater with an Oceanic backup and my partner still dives the same Suunto set up I had and am able to observe the differences of NDL time and other required time based on the same dive profiles over a long period of time.

I think there may be some value in a conservative computer for some divers while it frustrates many others.

 

[ScubaJill]

I understand that @ScubaJill is happy with her computer and recommended it, but given the description of the circumstances, it sounds like the computer is requesting extended time at a certain depth as a function of a particular dive time and depth. This is characteristic of deco time even though the computer does not display "deco". It may be not perceived as deco because it is not defined as such in the manual but in execution, that is what it sounds like.

Out of curiosity, what were your dive circumstances in Cozumel that created this limitation that you did not experience in other diving? Did you have a back to back, repetitive diving? I dived a Suunto primary and backup for about 130 dives and often did 4-5 dives a day for 7 days at a time for a 2-3 week trip. By and large, many consider the Suuntos as being quite conservative and even then, I did not experience any problems. I've moved onto Shearwater with an Oceanic backup and my partner still dives the same Suunto set up I had and am able to observe the differences of NDL time and other required time based on the same dive profiles over a long period of time.

I think there may be some value in a conservative computer for some divers while it frustrates many others.

Then what is being said is Cressi engineers are deliberately misleading its customers by not notifying them that they have a decompression stop and instead adding time at the safety stop. I don't disagree that this is designed to provide an additional opportunity to offgas, based on the computer's calculations. But if it is a true deco stop, and the diver is not notified, and the computer has a way to notify the diver of a deco obligation, then either there is another factor in play or the company is perpetuating some kind of fraud or negligence. That's a serious allegation and it seems to be thrown about indiscrimately.

I'd have to review the dive profiles and compare them to other dive trips.

 

[dmaziuk]

The fact is. all dives involve decompression since dissolved nitrogen must be eliminated at the end of the dive, but they do not all require stops. To further confuse the issue, a sufficiently slow ascent can take the place of stops.

DSAT 1994 validation report, p.7 section C.2. "Decompression and stops".

There is always deco, no matter what it sounds like. The computer may clear your "required stop" deco before you get to the stop depth and then you're back to "optional stop". I've seen plenty of DMs "extend" that "optional stop" past 5 minutes and personally I think it's a good idea regardless of whether your computers tells you to or not. Gas and schedule permitting, obviously.

 

[ScubaJill]

DSAT 1994 validation report, p.7 section C.2. "Decompression and stops".

There is always deco, no matter what it sounds like. The computer may clear your "required stop" deco before you get to the stop depth and then you're back to "optional stop". I've seen plenty of DMs "extend" that "optional stop" past 5 minutes and personally I think it's a good idea regardless of whether your computers tells you to or not. Gas and schedule permitting, obviously.

That's always been my understanding, too.

 

[outofofficebrb]

Then what is being said is Cressi engineers are deliberately misleading its customers by not notifying them that they have a decompression stop and instead adding time at the safety stop. I don't disagree that this is designed to provide an additional opportunity to offgas, based on the computer's calculations. But if it is a true deco stop, and the diver is not notified, and the computer has a way to notify the diver of a deco obligation, then either there is another factor in play or the company is perpetuating some kind of fraud or negligence. That's a serious allegation and it seems to be thrown about indiscrimately.

I'd have to review the dive profiles and compare them to other dive trips.

Nowhere did I come close to saying that the engineers are deliberately misleading its customers. I am not alleging anything and am not throwing anything around. I said it sounded like it was deco from my experience and in theory, based on what PADI's curriculum mentions about it. I'm not poo-pooing your computer so I don't understand why the need to be so abrasive in your response to me. I'm trying to stay on topic for the OP who is a new diver and much more fresh from open water than the rest of us. She may be thinking the same thing I was, or maybe she is not 100% sure what the exact difference is. I think the discussion is important so that she makes an informed and educated decision. What she chooses to do is up to her but I think it is beneficial to have the information here since we have gone down that path.

 

[dmaziuk]

:shrug: It is not clear to me when a given computer will stop counting the "safety stop time" and when or if it will "resume". As opposed to still counting in the background, just not displaying the SS countdown icon. Or resetting the counter so you have to start your SS again.

Some will trigger SS counter at 6-ish metres but continue count as long as you don't do below 8 or above 2 m. Some may interrupt (but not reset) the count below, say 7.8 metres, and resume once you're back at 5. Dip below 10 m and the counter will reset and you'll have to start your SS from scratch. Any of this may look like the computer has "padded" the safety stop.

My Cressi (Leonardo) threw me the first time it cleared my safety stop without me ever seeing the SS icon and countdown. The manual says nothing about it, but if you e.g. follow the bottom to shore and spend enough time above 8 metres or so, chances are you won't see the SS icon. Maybe you need to briefly pop above 6 metres to trigger the counter, and not notice it. Or maybe it recalculates your SS requirements and decides you've spent enough time in the shallows already...

 

[outofofficebrb]

DSAT 1994 validation report, p.7 section C.2. "Decompression and stops".

There is always deco, no matter what it sounds like. The computer may clear your "required stop" deco before you get to the stop depth and then you're back to "optional stop". I've seen plenty of DMs "extend" that "optional stop" past 5 minutes and personally I think it's a good idea regardless of whether your computers tells you to or not. Gas and schedule permitting, obviously.

There was mention of 10 minutes at 15 feet. This wasn't extending an optional stop past what the computer recommended that you do...It sounded like that was what the computer was telling her to do. I agree it's always better to err on the side of longer, there's no harm in it, pending gas supply.

One possibility that I can think of is that if ascent rates were blown (and possibly repeatedly), a computer may ask that you spend more time at a certain depth to offset that. I know Suuntos do that.

 

[KenGordon]

"What you are describing, if imposed by the computer, sounds like a proper deco stop"

Giotto notifies of a deco obligation. #1 in the section you quoted above. I'd highlight it, but I'm on my phone. The computer adds time at the safety stop with no DECO notification. On occasion, you will see a 1 minute deep stop. Again, no DECO notification. This is also mentioned in the user's guide. According to the computer, you're either in a deco dive or not in a deco dive.

Perhaps you'd like to take up the computer's functionality with Cressi's engineers?

This doesn’t quite answer my question, you seem to be saying you had a 10 minute stop but not showing DECO therefore it was a safety stop.

The deep stops this sort of computer give tend to be fake Pyle stops and optional, either by enabling them or by being able to blow past them. It is quite hard to get a 17m ceiling but pretty easy to get a 17m deep stop.

I can imagine that Cressi might have two m value limits and call the stops which happen between the two safety stops and then the ones that happen beyond both actual stops. For the GF heads out there that would be like having a GF x/90 profile but with safety stops pushing it to x/80. It would let you surface at a GF of 90 but try to hold you to a GF of 80.

That would be pretty cool. The most I have seen any other computer add to a safety stop is one minute.

You need to understand though that, from our seats, another plausible explanation is that you really were in deco.

 

[KenGordon]

I am buying all mine and my husbands gear.
I am down to computers, safety sausages, and lights, and pointer rattles.
Right now we have decided to start with cheaper computers then we can upgrade.
So I think we have narrowed it down to these three.
Which one is the best of these?
Suunto Zoop
Cressi Giotto
Oceanic Geo 2.0

Thanks

If you expect to upgrade eventually just buy the cheapest. Actually eve; if you never upgrade buy the cheapest, but not a single button one as they are excessively annoying for a small difference in price.

Depending on how good your eyes though you might want to think twice about the watch sided ones. I personally think they are a poor choice as they are huge and ugly watches but a bit on the small side as dive computers while being more expensive than normal sized computers.

I have a Zoop (the old model) which is lent out and was replaced with the Helo2 (similar but 4 buttons and Trimix). There is also a Vyper in the house,a couple of Shearwaters and some Oceanic watch sized thing I bought so I could argue with Scubadada but which died after a 50m chamber dive.

I like the Zoop, it is simple and reasonably easy to use, although the extra button on the Helo2 improves on that. The new version of the Zoop is also 4 button.

Easy of use and an understandable manual are key features. A computer is there to tell you stuff that is important to understand. You can download the manuals to see if they make sense to you.

Ps Don’t buy a rattle. Bang something, for example a clip, on your tank. Better, still don’t make a noise.

 

[ScubaJill]

Nowhere did I come close to saying that the engineers are deliberately misleading its customers. I am not alleging anything and am not throwing anything around. I said it sounded like it was deco from my experience and in theory, based on what PADI's curriculum mentions about it. I'm not poo-pooing your computer so I don't understand why the need to be so abrasive in your response to me. I'm trying to stay on topic for the OP who is a new diver and much more fresh from open water than the rest of us. She may be thinking the same thing I was, or maybe she is not 100% sure what the exact difference is. I think the discussion is important so that she makes an informed and educated decision. What she chooses to do is up to her but I think it is beneficial to have the information here since we have gone down that path.

In my response to you, I was referring to your summary of the discussion in the thread. I didn't think you were poo-pooing my dive computer. For the record, I don't care all that much. Had I purchased any other dive computer, and it was on the OP's list, I would have provided my opinion.

And I don't think it was abrasive at all. Perhaps you're reading my comments with a different tone than I am using? For the record, I've been relaxing most of the day. It's sunny here. I'm typing responses on my phone while reclining in a chair. I can see the Chesapeake Bay outside my front door. I'm considering going to grab a soft serve swirl on a cone once I finish this. Totally relaxed.

I'm still engaging here because I think it important that new divers or divers considering a new computer receive differing opinions about the dive computers available. There has been a historical tendency to push one type of dive computer or one type of algorithm.

Again, totally relaxed. I'm a diver with a very low SAC rate.