Can dive masters and instructors solo?

[deepwaterferret]

Mike, while you are correct, a personal injury lawyer is going to make one critical distinction.

None of the other types of "non-recreational" diving you mentioned violate the tennets of PADI, NAUI, SSI. They don't say those other kinds of diving are forbidden. All those organizations say about decompresion diving, wreck diving and cave diving is that you need the appropriate training and equipment, which is not part
of the OW cirriculum. But they don't discourage these activities per se. Instead, they encourage you to take more classes and get certified to do those things, if you are interested.

In contrast, solo diving is something that violates the basic core of their safety system, and they don't offer any courses to certify you for it. Take away the buddy sytem, and these organizations lose most of their legal defenses to a claim that scuba is unsafe for beginners.

Back to your example, if a student sees an instructor cave diving, it is not setting a bad example. Presumably, the instructor told students during the class that he was trained and certified and equipped to do that, and they should not attempt it without doing the same. If the student came up to the instructor, they would surely have that conversation if the student showed interest.

The instructor cannot make the same statement about solo diving. None of the main certifying agencies certify or endorse solo diving. The instructor can't say, "It's okay for me but not for you because I am solo certified." You can't escape the fact that you are doing something right in front of your former student that PADI, SSI and NAUI say you should not do.

So, I do think the personal injury lawyer would have a good argument that the solo diving set a bad example, period.

However, in my opinion, based on general principles of tort law, I do not think the instructor has a legal duty after the class is completed and the instructor-student relationship has ended to always set a "good" example. You teach the class by the book, finish the class, send the students home, and what you do on your own time away from class is your own business.

 

[drbill]

I thought that PADI was now saying that solo diving is not unacceptable if the diver has the proper training. Am I wrong in thinking this?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

No Doc you are not. As posted on one of these threads in the solo forum, PADI's new position is that, and I'm paraphrasing here, that solo diving has it's place. Provided that the diver has the proper equipment and EXPERIENCE! There is no mention of training per se but they are saying that they view it as a form of TECHNICAL diving. This therefore to me leaves open the door for them to issue a cert in the future under the DSAT tech program. They state that a diver should in addition have at least 100 dives with a buddy. Same requirement for tech deep as far as number of dives goes. Coincidence? Maybe, Maybe not. Also same number required for the SDI/TDI(?) solo cert to start their course.

 

[Jim Ernst]

hey guys and gals, PADI DOES NOW HAVE a solo diver course, it is not widly advertised yet but it is there!!!!! check into it and you will find it!!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Where? Is this on their web site Jim?

 

[deepwaterferret]

Well, that is a smart move by PADI.

That makes it much easier for the instructors now. They can just say "you need to take the solo class and get certified before you dive solo." End of story. No more trying to explain the exceptions to the rule or the "do as I say, not as I do."

 

[BarryNL]

Nemrod, your question of how is solo diving a bad example is a fair question.

I meant "bad example" in the context of the allegations we are worried may be made against us.

Ollie the Open Water diver goes and does a solo dive a week after you taught his open water class. He gets hurt. He has no insurance. So he needs to sue somebody to cover his medical bills and lost wages. He goes to see a lawyer.

The lawyer, who is a diver himself, says, "Ollie, I hate to break this to you, but your injury was your own fault. Your instructor taught you not to solo dive in your class. He warned you. You did not heed his warnings. I don't see how I can sue him."

Ollie repiles, "but, but...I got the idea to solo dive from watching my instructor out at the lake right after my class. I saw him solo diving, so I thought it was okay. I thought all those warnings were just BS you know, because he wasn't following it."

"Ah ha!" exclaims the lawyer. "The instructor negated the warnings by setting a bad example exactly contrary to the content of the warning. He set a bad example. But for his bad example, you never would have attemped such a dangerous undertaking, now would you?"

"Um, no" replies Ollie.

"Good answer" said the lawyer. He continued "I think you've got a case. Sign here, this is my standard contingency fee agreement."

I would be surprised if a lawyer would take this on a "no-win, no-fee" basis. I would imagine the chance of winning the case is not good and scuba instructors aren't known for making huge amounts of money. I say this, because the student would be suing the instructor personally - I can't see how the instructor's private behaviour could be connected to the dive company employing them - which may well have deeper pockets.

 

[serambin]

Of course not, the SCUBA police would arrest them, torture them, and take away their favorite tank.

Stan

 

[LenC]

I think there is an ongoing requirement to set a good example as an instructor and I have no qualms at all about going in for a solo right after certifying some new divers. However, part of the training I provide is to explain, in some detail, that there are different levels of diving and each requires its own skills and experience. I talk about the need for experience both in the water and with the equipment and make it plain that exceeding training and ability is one very fast way to drown - whether it is solo, cave diving, wreck penetration or just ignoring bottom time.

I think after they are made to understand this and see the instructor, with the appropriate equipment, walk into the water alone they will not be tempted to emulate him. But they may be encouraged to seek the added training and experience to do it someday.

 

[AndyNZ]

To be honest, I bring solo diving right out in the open when teaching basic OW. I admit that I do it, I explain why I do it and also discuss the kind of things that need to be thought about before diving solo.

If an ex-students sees my diving solo, I don't think it is a bad example provided I'm solo diving in a responsible manner - but if they see me going to do a 30m dive with half a tank of gas, no redunant systems etc etc then it is a bad example.

if anyone asks "when would I be ready?", I tend to say something like "when you can remove and replace your scuba unit, with no mask, in water that is about 8 degC and vis is less than 0.5m, whilst hovering and not changing depth more than +/- 1m" then they are ready to start thinking that they might be able to dive solo. I then give them details of a local SDI solo instructor...