Cave Damage at Little River!!!

[Mike Edmonston]

UGH!

I was diving little river 2 days ago, and in the serpentine tunnel, there was fresh serious rock damage of the lower tunnel plane where it meets with the clay. By all accounts, it looks like someone was trying to Nomount a 12" x12" hole, and broke off a 10" piece of the tunnel. Not being satisfied with that, they tried it again next to it and broke an even biger piece off a second formation.

When our team went in around 4:30, there was only 1 team in the system, and they passed us in sidemount right after the chimmney. Now I am not accusing them of doing this, but the system was so blitzed out, that I had to basically do a line drill to find the shute! We had at best 3' of vis!!! This continued until we hit the damage at the serpentine tunnel, and past that the vis was great!

The damage was so fresh, that the fresh silt had not even had a chance to settle on the bone white fractures.

I just talked with John, and he's going to take some pictures and post them tomorrow night.

People, this crap has got to stop. Sidemounting does not give you the right to destroy the friggin cave! I choose to sidemount because it MINIMIZES the damage that backmount would do in certain areas. For pete's sake, use some common sense!

 

[karstdvr]

People, this crap has got to stop.:

It will.

Either we become conservation minded and treat the cave as something other than a playground,or we'll see access limitations imposed. This isn't a threat,this is reality,because it is already being discussed. A very real possibilty is driving up to somewhere like Peacock and being told,sorry,we've met our 5 team a day limit.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

It will.

Either we become conservation minded and treat the cave as something other than a playground,or we'll see access limitations imposed. This isn't a threat,this is reality,because it is already being discussed. A very real possibilty is driving up to somewhere like Peacock and being told,sorry,we've met our 5 team a day limit.

Yup,

Madison already has a limit

 

[gnwes]

This is complete B.S. why cant people just have respect and not vandalize things so we dont always have to worry about them getting restriced. Im not a cave diver yet but I fully intend to be one, one day and the thought of people disrespecting them makes me very angry. :bigun2:

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Reminds me of the asshats who've carved their names into brain corals in the Philipines. Some people are just a waste of skin.

 

[DiveBandit]

I'm with you guys on the cave conservation concept, I really am, but limiting the number of divers/teams won't do anything. The original post is a perfect example. OP was the 2nd team in and apparently the 1st team in did the damage. So a team limit of 5 would not have stopped this if they in fact did the damage. Look at cow spring. It's privately owned and gated, yet it has recently been vandilized.

I really think we need some type of paradyn shift here if we are going to effectively deal with this type of situation. First, and it's been said before, we need to accept that as long as we have cave divers, we'll have cave damage. Maybe the answer is to block access to certain parts of the caves rather than limiting access to the cave entirely. You can visit the building that the US constitution was written in, but you can't wonder around the building at will. there are only certain areas you can access. I don't know if thats the answer, but it's thinking outside the box, and it's better than total cutoffs.

Just my 02 cents.

 

[jimdiverman]

I'm with you guys on the cave conservation concept, I really am, but limiting the number of divers/teams won't do anything. The original post is a perfect example. OP was the 2nd team in and apparently the 1st team in did the damage. So a team limit of 5 would not have stopped this if they in fact did the damage. Look at cow spring. It's privately owned and gated, yet it has recently been vandilized.

I really think we need some type of paradyn shift here if we are going to effectively deal with this type of situation. First, and it's been said before, we need to accept that as long as we have cave divers, we'll have cave damage. Maybe the answer is to block access to certain parts of the caves rather than limiting access to the cave entirely. You can visit the building that the US constitution was written in, but you can't wonder around the building at will. there are only certain areas you can access. I don't know if thats the answer, but it's thinking outside the box, and it's better than total cutoffs.

Just my 02 cents.

One day we could all be taking out insurance policies before we are allowed to enter into caves. The insurance policy will be expensive, but we won't be allowed in the cave system without it. Our dive will either be entirely filmed or accompanied by a third party observer whose sole job responsibility will be to report what damage you do to the cave back to the cave system owner so that your insurance can be used to pay damages, regardless of whether the damage is minor, major or irreparable. In any case, you will be fined.

If this is not the world we want, what are we willing to do to prevent this? What procedures can we devise and enforce on ourselves to prevent this type of oversight, or worse, complete lockout?

 

[Mike Edmonston]

OP was the 2nd team in and apparently the 1st team in did the damage.

Just to reiterate my earlier post, I have no proof that the exiting team did the damage. I am not accusing them, as there has ben enough of that done on-line already. I am simply stating the facts that when we went in, the system was blitzed out, and the silt screen stopped at the damage. Barring any physical evidence, I am leaving it at that.

Maybe the answer is to block access to certain parts of the caves rather than limiting access to the cave entirely. You can visit the building that the US constitution was written in, but you can't wonder around the building at will.

I understand what you are saying about limiting access, but that solution is not really feasable. Educating the divers is our best remedy. Along with keeping a vigilant eye on the systems. We need to police ourselves, because if we leave it up to the state or politicians, the only cave diving we'll be doing is in a bathtub!

 

[Daedalus]

First, and it's been said before, we need to accept that as long as we have cave divers, we'll have cave damage. Maybe the answer is to block access to certain parts of the caves rather than limiting access to the cave entirely. You can visit the building that the US constitution was written in, but you can't wonder around the building at will. there are only certain areas you can access. I don't know if thats the answer, but it's thinking outside the box, and it's better than total cutoffs.

Just my 02 cents.

A better solution is to cut off access to divers who are total disasters and pull the certifications of the instructors who produced them.

 

[Phreatic Fanatic]

A better solution is to cut off access to divers who are total disasters and pull the certifications of the instructors who produced them.

Sounds easy on 'paper', but just how do you propose to do this? What criteria are you going to use to determine who the disasters are?