Cave Training and Etiquette Real or Imaginary?

[LiteHedded]

I use to write training standards in the service. Another part to the problem is the instructor standards and their interpretation of them is all over the place. I would like nothing better as a starting point, to have agencies get together and decide on a mean average (at least) attempting to qualify and establish common standards. In recreational scuba the RSTC has an agreement between the signatory agencies of such a thing. How well has that worked? Politics get in the way as does egos.



I am familiar with Benjamin Bloom, But it is not the "Mastery Learning" context I am suggesting. I agree with you, "Mastery Learning" is a context most often used in the teaching methodology of many scuba agencies. Typical scuba con-ed - A individual builds knowledge and skill through progressive study

However "Mastery Learning" is not being a master of your skill and knowledge as that of a "Subject Matter Expect" (SME) as the expected case of cave diving instruction, in general I believe my definition is correct regardless if standards are being applied. Many current instructors lack SME'ness ( a fault of the "Mastery Learning" process in part no doubt) and the results of this we can see everyday.

There is no mentor-ship, often no continued and committed studies occur once a instructional level has been reached. A true SME continues to improve themselves and those they mentor. I think that a SME level of achievement is the real start of learning.. There is a saying that being a teacher is the best way to learn but only if the teacher continues to master.

The system is broken

Rick,

what is the nacd and its board doing to fix the issues with its instructors and classes?

many of us are frustrated with the product being produced by cave diving instructors these days and it seems you share that frustration. so, as the president of the NACD, what is your agency specifically doing to combat it?

 

[GDI]

Rick,

what is the nacd and its board doing to fix the issues with its instructors and classes?

many of us are frustrated with the product being produced by cave diving instructors these days and it seems you share that frustration. so, as the president of the NACD, what is your agency specifically doing to combat it?

Good Question?

I have discussed this issue with our brother agency NSS-CDS, both are seeing the same trends. I do not plan to stop there. In fact I have already planted the seeds and engaged the other agencies. It is very important first of all that we the NACD get our own house in order. This will take a bit of a review and effort. With that we will need some feedback, monitoring and a better regard to quality assurance measures. The NACD has not conducted a IE recently so hopefully the next one will see a higher expectation expressed at the instructor level. The process to becoming a NACD instructor is not hard but it can be lengthy. I'll talk about that later

One of the first steps will be to get our instructors on board, and hear what they have a say towards what needs to be done (Internationally). This is no small under-taking by any means especially with a volunteer workforce. This will become a point of discussion at the next NACD annual seminar's instructor meeting and of course we will have the town hall on the Sunday. (October Time-frame) Attendance and participation will indicate support. Communication direct to the Training Director and or any Board Member is also vital and can occur anytime. » Board of Directors National Association for Cave Diving

I would like to see a "Gathering of the Clans". A meeting/conference where the main players (the agencies) get together and discuss a common baseline of standards, expectations and inter-agency relationships and efforts. DEMA might be the best venue for this however getting the stakeholders to participate is a challenge , getting them agree is even bigger. We will need the recreational agencies to participate as well. Why? because it is here the foundational scuba skills are set and subject to any distinctive specialties, a cross over point from Rec to Tec diving exists. Take a look at the surge in Sidemount and Rebreather divers. The line between Rec and Tec is no longer anything more then a fin kick to cross.

The NACD has processes which will be better adhered to. These processes have a proven record of success. Not that they are perfect and can't use a good going over but they do need to be applied and re-evaluated. As a example, to be an NACD instructor, the potential candidate has some prerequisites. Must be a OWSI with a recognized agency (PADI. SSI, NAUI, SDI, ACUC etc). Must be a Full Cave Diver having a specified number of post training cave dives (100). The candidate and the mentor instructor submits a request to the NACD TD, siting the pre-reqs are met. Once Validated the Mentoring Instructor and Candidate Co-teaches a course to the level being applied for (Cavern, Intro or Full Cave). The Candidate must complete three Co-teaches and receive a minimum two letters of recommendation, also submitted to the NACD TD, for attending the next IE. During the IE, the potential Candidate will under-go assessment by a panel of Cave Instructors listed as part of the NACD Training Committee and the NACD TD, Exams are written, Standards and Procedures are questioned and if all goes well the New Cavern Instructor is approved. Should the individual desire to advance to full cave instructor then this process is again repeated. During the IE the Candidate is also assessed not just on their teaching technique but also on their skills as a cave diver. (Hover without sculling, valve shutdown complete 1 min or less, reel work, propulsion techniques, understanding of S&P, emergency and safety practices, debriefings etc). The Candidate is also expected to pay all fees for the IE and NACD Memberships and Must have in possession a Hard copy of NACD S&P.

It is no secret that some agencies have instructors attend a instructor class taught by a instructor trainer or through a experience program where the instructor needs to have so many dives of the type logged (sometimes <20 total) and submit a course outline (often copied by another agency's program). There are still pre-req in these methods. This is not just one agency but a few that use these methods of instructor certification.

So I have a lot of work to do. I am drawing up a strategy and doing research. I am attempting to select the best course of action (COA) to move forward. It all starts with what needs to be done first at home within the NACD.

 

[Omisson]

Good Question?

I have discussed this issue with our brother agency NSS-CDS, both are seeing the same trends. I do not plan to stop there. In fact I have already planted the seeds and engaged the other agencies. It is very important first of all that we the NACD get our own house in order. This will take a bit of a review and effort. With that we will need some feedback, monitoring and a better regard to quality assurance measures. The NACD has not conducted a IE recently so hopefully the next one will see a higher expectation expressed at the instructor level. The process to becoming a NACD instructor is not hard but it can be lengthy. I'll talk about that later

One of the first steps will be to get our instructors on board, and hear what they have a say towards what needs to be done (Internationally). This is no small under-taking by any means especially with a volunteer workforce. This will become a point of discussion at the next NACD annual seminar's instructor meeting and of course we will have the town hall on the Sunday. (October Time-frame) Attendance and participation will indicate support. Communication direct to the Training Director and or any Board Member is also vital and can occur anytime. » Board of Directors National Association for Cave Diving

I would like to see a "Gathering of the Clans". A meeting/conference where the main players (the agencies) get together and discuss a common baseline of standards, expectations and inter-agency relationships and efforts. DEMA might be the best venue for this however getting the stakeholders to participate is a challenge , getting them agree is even bigger. We will need the recreational agencies to participate as well. Why? because it is here the foundational scuba skills are set and subject to any distinctive specialties, a cross over point from Rec to Tec diving exists. Take a look at the surge in Sidemount and Rebreather divers. The line between Rec and Tec is no longer anything more then a fin kick to cross.

The NACD has processes which will be better adhered to. These processes have a proven record of success. Not that they are perfect and can't use a good going over but they do need to be applied and re-evaluated. As a example, to be an NACD instructor, the potential candidate has some prerequisites. Must be a OWSI with a recognized agency (PADI. SSI, NAUI, SDI, ACUC etc). Must be a Full Cave Diver having a specified number of post training cave dives (100). The candidate and the mentor instructor submits a request to the NACD TD, siting the pre-reqs are met. Once Validated the Mentoring Instructor and Candidate Co-teaches a course to the level being applied for (Cavern, Intro or Full Cave). The Candidate must complete three Co-teaches and receive a minimum two letters of recommendation, also submitted to the NACD TD, for attending the next IE. During the IE, the potential Candidate will under-go assessment by a panel of Cave Instructors listed as part of the NACD Training Committee and the NACD TD, Exams are written, Standards and Procedures are questioned and if all goes well the New Cavern Instructor is approved. Should the individual desire to advance to full cave instructor then this process is again repeated. During the IE the Candidate is also assessed not just on their teaching technique but also on their skills as a cave diver. (Hover without sculling, valve shutdown complete 1 min or less, reel work, propulsion techniques, understanding of S&P, emergency and safety practices, debriefings etc). The Candidate is also expected to pay all fees for the IE and NACD Memberships and Must have in possession a Hard copy of NACD S&P.

It is no secret that some agencies have instructors attend a instructor class taught by a instructor trainer or through a experience program where the instructor needs to have so many dives of the type logged (sometimes <20 total) and submit a course outline (often copied by another agency's program). There are still pre-req in these methods. This is not just one agency but a few that use these methods of instructor certification.

So I have a lot of work to do. I am drawing up a strategy and doing research. I am attempting to select the best course of action (COA) to move forward. It all starts with what needs to be done first at home within the NACD.

Rick thanks for all your doing! Keep it up!

 

[TSandM]

It is wonderful to see someone in a leadership position voicing a dedication to quality instruction. I wish you well with your efforts, Rick.

 

[boulderjohn]

One of the first steps will be to get our instructors on board, and hear what they have a say towards what needs to be done (Internationally). This is no small under-taking by any means especially with a volunteer workforce. This will become a point of discussion at the next NACD annual seminar's instructor meeting and of course we will have the town hall on the Sunday. (October Time-frame) Attendance and participation will indicate support. Communication direct to the Training Director and or any Board Member is also vital and can occur anytime. » Board of Directors National Association for Cave Diving

I would like to see a "Gathering of the Clans". A meeting/conference where the main players (the agencies) get together and discuss a common baseline of standards, expectations and inter-agency relationships and efforts. DEMA might be the best venue for this however getting the stakeholders to participate is a challenge , getting them agree is even bigger. We will need the recreational agencies to participate as well. Why? because it is here the foundational scuba skills are set and subject to any distinctive specialties, a cross over point from Rec to Tec diving exists. Take a look at the surge in Sidemount and Rebreather divers. The line between Rec and Tec is no longer anything more then a fin kick to cross.

I believe this is a truly worthy cause. You indicated that it is "no small task." You are very much correct there. As someone who has tried similar tasks on a lesser level, I know all too well. I have had both failures and successes, and I have learned from both.

The first advice I have for you based on that experience is work to bring on interested parties carefully. That especially means avoid those who will sabotage. Don't even let them know you are doing it. Research by the Annenberg Institute for School Reform on why so many of its reform efforts failed indicated that the number one reason (and nothing else was remotely close) was the active resistance of a handful of dissenters. In many cases, a single negative voice disrupting matters was all it took. It may be because of what William Butler Yeats observed in a poem: "The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are full of passionate intensity." Your all-volunteer force may have trouble slogging it out against minor opposition.

I think it will take a long time. If you have an all-volunteer force with limited funds, you won't be able to pull off too many in-person meetings. I suggest that you work to build an organization of willing people and use a patient consensus building approach through Internet processes. You can do it a number of ways. We can even build a discussion are in ScubaBoard that would be open only to the select members. I am sure Pete would agree to that.

Good luck!

 

[GDI]

I believe this is a truly worthy cause. You indicated that it is "no small task." You are very much correct there. As someone who has tried similar tasks on a lesser level, I know all too well. I have had both failures and successes, and I have learned from both.

The first advice I have for you based on that experience is work to bring on interested parties carefully. That especially means avoid those who will sabotage. Don't even let them know you are doing it. Research by the Annenberg Institute for School Reform on why so many of its reform efforts failed indicated that the number one reason (and nothing else was remotely close) was the active resistance of a handful of dissenters. In many cases, a single negative voice disrupting matters was all it took. It may be because of what William Butler Yeats observed in a poem: "The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are full of passionate intensity." Your all-volunteer force may have trouble slogging it out against minor opposition.

I think it will take a long time. If you have an all-volunteer force with limited funds, you won't be able to pull off too many in-person meetings. I suggest that you work to build an organization of willing people and use a patient consensus building approach through Internet processes. You can do it a number of ways. We can even build a discussion are in ScubaBoard that would be open only to the select members. I am sure Pete would agree to that.

Good luck!

Here for the long haul. Much of this is already in the works, For NACD members we have a forum NACD Members

But if Pete and all are up to it I would be happy to have/see a cave instructors forum/section here on Scubaboard. The intent to be to correct things, this will take a community effort

 

[LiteHedded]

Curious to see what comes of it.

 

[Superlyte27]

Too little too late me thinks. But we'll see and hope for the best.

 

[The Chairman]

But if Pete and all are up to it I would be happy to have/see a cave instructors forum/section here on Scubaboard. The intent to be to correct things, this will take a community effort

I'll have it up tonight... I just need to know who will be the forum monitors.

 

[GDI]

I'll have it up tonight... I just need to know who will be the forum monitors.

These monitors need to be international and represent different agencies.