certification for homebuilt rebreather

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wedivebc

CCR Instructor Trainer
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When I first started diving rebreather I bought a used draeger dolphin got properly trained and enjoyed the semi quitet world of semi closed rebreather technology. It was not long before the limitations of the rebreather became apparent so I looked for ways to improve it. Fortunately a good friend of mine had just gone down the same path and was able to lead the way to a hybrid KISS/Dolphin marriage that made my Dolphin far more versatile. The problem was I now owned a rebreather that I was no longer qualified to dive. I was able to pass off my Draeger cert card to less rebreather savvy operators or others who knew me and were OK with what I was doing. I eventually sought out this same friend who was also a KISS rebreather instructor and did the training. Unfortunately I was still uncertified although properly trained to dive my unit with its modifications because no agency recognizes what is considered a homebuild.
Every rebreather starts out is someone's basement, garage, back room as a homebuild until the concept takes off and you sell a hundred of them and are able to convince a training agency to certify divers and instructors.
Since most units are based on similar principles this certification should be more generic. It is time that rebreather training become less specific and recognize the fact that a rebreather builder is probably more qualified to dive his unit than many trained off-the-shelf rebreather divers.
This unit specific attitude is akin to making an open circuit diver get a different c-card when they switch from apeks to scubapro regs. Is generic RB training is being rejected by agencies because they make less money off multiple certs? Is it the insurance companies who want a company with deep pockets to go after when a rebreather fails to support life.
I recently saw a guy on a forum trying to buy blank c-cards to address this problem. This just illustrates how desperate some people are to get certified on their home made rebreathers. I suggest anyone who can build one and dive it is probably qualified to hold a valid c-card.
 
wedivebc:
I recently saw a guy on a forum trying to buy blank c-cards to address this problem. This just illustrates how desperate some people are to get certified on their home made rebreathers. I suggest anyone who can build one and dive it is probably qualified to hold a valid c-card.
I think...if they sign the waiver. Let em do what they want. There is no "Law" that says otherwise. Just fear of lawsuits.
 
JeffG:
I think...if they sign the waiver. Let em do what they want. There is no "Law" that says otherwise. Just fear of lawsuits.
I couldn't agree more except the lawyers and the insurance companies dictate what we get away with in this sport. So in reality there is a law but it's civil law.
 
wedivebc:
I couldn't agree more except the lawyers and the insurance companies dictate what we get away with in this sport. So in reality there is a law but it's civil law.
Unfortunatly...There is no real solution to that, other than

a) have your own boat or
b) keep looking for a dive op that lets you do what you want.

(The Mamro...is like that for us now.)
 
JeffG:
Unfortunatly...There is no real solution to that, other than

a) have your own boat or
b) keep looking for a dive op that lets you do what you want.

(The Mamro...is like that for us now.)
What do they allow you to do that others won't? You need to talk to my buddy Ken.
 
wedivebc:
What do they allow you to do that others won't? You need to talk to my buddy Ken.
Slightly...offtopic for this thread

But we don't have to show c-cards. (we sign waiver...and we are off to the races)

No questions on what/how we do stuff. No questions when we show up with 6 T's of helium and Haskle boosters.

His job is to ferry us around and give us dive site options (ie weatherman stuff). Not to baby sit us.

All he wants to know..is which tanks need tops with air and of those tanks...which ones are starting with 100% O2.
 
Then you can issue your own certs...How about:

G.R.U.B - Generic Rebreather Undersea Board

G.I.R.L.S. - Generic International Rebreather Lover Society
R.I.B.S. - Rebreathers International Bandwagon Society


Help me out here guys...

Point is, does it really matter what your diving and what kind of card you carry as long as it's a RB card? A guy shows up on my boat with what looks like Dolphin and a Dolphin card - as long as he signes a waiver like everyone else, he's in the water as far as I'm concerned.

Who's is giving you a hard time?
 
It seems a bit different here in Europe though.

In USA and Canada you always sign this waiver and you state that your responsible for what you do, but here and in for example Red Sea the operators feel they have huge responasability for you so they demand you to show proper certifications so this is more of a problem here.

So 1-0 to USA and Canada vs. Europe!
 
WetDawg:
Who's is giving you a hard time?
Try and get cave or wreck certified while diving your homebuild. No amount of waivers will get you there.
 
F.A.R.T. - Fraudulent Agency for Rebreathers Training :D

Seriously, there is no easy solution to this problem.
Ron Micjan looked into training and certification divers with KISS valved Dolphins.
From what I got he couldn't get a single agency to back him because of liability concerns.
I gather he will train a diver who seeks the skills and knowledge, but he can't offer a c-card.

Even setting up an agency to issue the cards may not help. My original OW certification was issued by DIWA (Diving Instructor World Association), an agency fairly active in Europe in the 80s. Good training, 6 days of theory and diving. Try to get a spot on a SoCal dive boat, and in some cases even gas fills in a shop. Always sad to see the fear of some scheister dominate over intelligent thinking ... .

Got so sick and tired of dealing with morons (there is no c-card, but rather a booklet like a passport that lists the stuff covered in class, all of PADI and the likes OW, most of AOW and everything of Rescue but CPR) that I challenged the PADI OW class, did the written test and skills and got their c-card. Instantly accepted everywhere.
 

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