Changing dive op attitudes to "solo"

[waterpirate]

I think how people look at solo diving has changed for the wrong reasons, just like tech did. Solo became another class to be marketed, and a goal for people who seek them for goals sake. Just like the tech-reational training, if the classes produce some divers with better skills we all win, even the divers seeking the goals.

As far as charter capt.'s go.... I am also a product of the Atlantic. If you could not take care of yourself, you did not get on the boat with a buddy, let alone solo. The difference is in the definition. We can all agree that there is a huge difference between a team, and a buddy.

You are never going to change the mind of a Capt. with a card. They have their SOP and know what makes their insurance carrier nervous.

I am a far traveling diver, usually alone. I rarely am denied solo. The few times that an operator did, they simply told me to shadow the DM from hook to exit. Fair enough in my book. The bottom line is that Capt. and crew are really good at sniffing out strokes, it is there job to do so. It is you that are allowed to solo any given dive, not your card.
YMMV
Eric

 

[RJP]

OK, you earned it. Someday I'm going to dive off the Gypsy Blood.

I don't know why it never happened for me. Just never did. Captain Dan speaks really well of you guys. -and you do the same.

:kiss2:

"Different boats for different folks"

Some people like to dive on a boat where the crew is reluctantly willing to let paying passengers come out on "their dive trip" with them... as long as you stay out of their way and don't interfere with their dives. Other people like to dive on a boat where the crew knows that it's the passenger's trip.

As long as you know - and are happy with - which type of boat your diving on you'll be fine.

:d

 

[uncfnp]

I think how people look at solo diving has changed for the wrong reasons, just like tech did. Solo became another class to be marketed, and a goal for people who seek them for goals sake. Just like the tech-reational training, if the classes produce some divers with better skills we all win, even the divers seeking the goals.

As far as charter capt.'s go.... I am also a product of the Atlantic. If you could not take care of yourself, you did not get on the boat with a buddy, let alone solo. The difference is in the definition. We can all agree that there is a huge difference between a team, and a buddy.

You are never going to change the mind of a Capt. with a card. They have their SOP and know what makes their insurance carrier nervous.

I am a far traveling diver, usually alone. I rarely am denied solo. The few times that an operator did, they simply told me to shadow the DM from hook to exit. Fair enough in my book. The bottom line is that Capt. and crew are really good at sniffing out strokes, it is there job to do so. It is you that are allowed to solo any given dive, not your card.
YMMV
Eric

Obviously everyone's motive for solo and approach to training is going to be different and perhaps similar to dive ops acceptance, it may be regionally driven as well.

For me, solo just came about as a natural progression of my diving. At that time, the only solo divers I saw was a crusty older gentleman that would not say two words to me on the boat and the hunters. None of them were "properly" equipped for solo. I had never seen a pony bottle. I had no solo mentor or even a good role model.

I admit. I got a lot of info from SB and select members but still I wanted one on one discussion. For me, that was a class. Didn't matter about the card and I had already purchased and read the SDI book. I wanted that personal instruction/mentor.

 

[Rhone Man]

I personally have never had a problem with solo diving from a safety perspective.

But like sex, it is definitely more fun when others are participating.

 

[RJP]

If I ever make it to do a Turks & Caicos live-aboard, I believe they just may be my boat.

Richard.

If you're looking to simply purchase a solo diver card without need to - or benefit of - actually learning much that's certainly a great option.

That's where I bought mine.



---------- Post added February 8th, 2015 at 12:07 PM ----------

But like sex, it is definitely more fun when others are participating.

Sounds like a buddy solution to a skill problem...

:d

 

[DaleC]

I was thinking about KWS's post too.

It seems to try to equate greater acceptance of solo diving with a greater acceptance of more divers with poor abilities, which may not be true. With greater acceptance there can be an honest discussion about the real pros and cons of solo diving and what one really needs to engage in it, instead of slinking off and doing so when no one is looking. I could not even talk about it at the time with my dive shop for fear they would not give me fills.

The argument doesn't hold up in other areas as well. With greater acceptance of cave diving there hasn't been a decline in skills, in fact there has been a solidifying of consensus over how important they are. That consensus seems to revolve around taking the courses, which makes sense in that arena because there is so much to learn, but they also often talk about specific skills and why they are important. With solo we are still stuck with regurgitating a lot of crap written in a book or added to some cheesy course curriculum, like diving thirds as a default without understanding when that may or may not be appropriate or suggesting total redundancy as the be all and end all of equipment selection.

There are some concepts that can be taught in a course so that is good but they can also be collected by someone who is willing to think and look for them. The course just compiles stuff in one place. What is important though is to talk about that stuff openly instead of stopping at "solo is bad". A course also cannot completely teach the mindset that a good solo diver needs, which often seem at odds with itself and needs to be discussed to be understood more: foresight, ability to make decisions, calmness and confidence tempered by humility.

These are the fundamentals of solo diving as far as I am concerned and they cannot be covered by blanket statements or simple prescriptions. Being able to look ahead and determine outcomes and to perceive danger before it manifests is a tricky skill. We tend to focus on being able to extricate oneself from trouble but I maintain that the ability to avoid trouble is the real thing to develop.

When trouble does come you also need to be able to work through things calmly, but decisively. This ability is in part due to experience telling you it will be ok and in part your personal approach to stress, which is both natural and learned.

And confidence enough to dive alone needs to be balanced against the capacity to say no to yourself, to impose restraint and caution when it doesn't seem necessary in the moment. This is a big one to me and something that can be mentioned in a course but is really up to the individual. How to balance confidence and restraint isn't a one off thing. Sometimes the solo diver is put forth as an A type personality but I think a B type is more suited to it. The A type needs to restraint the "Go Go watch me do this" impulse while the B type needs to move forward from the "sit and think" mode, which I believe is more suited to solo diving... but that's just my opinion. Interestingly, the A type is more successful in putting forth their ideas than the B type which is another discussion point.

I don't have a clue how dive OP's can assess all these traits in the short time one is on their boat, just as they cannot assess whether a buddy team actually has good buddy skills. They assume they do because they have a card that says they were exposed to the concept once in the past so I suppose a solo cert should do the same, though it seems woefully inadequate to me. Certainly making solo diving more open and acceptable could not be as bad as the current practice commonly put forth of "pretend to be a buddy team until you splash and then separate". That leaves no room for improvement.

 

[drrich2]

The bottom line is that Capt. and crew are really good at sniffing out strokes, it is there job to do so. It is you that are allowed to solo any given dive, not your card.

This is a very interesting issue, and goes beyond soloing. At one extreme, we have 'water taxis' which take you to a dive site, and come back once everyone is on board. No guides. You maybe get a pre-dive site briefing. The assumption is that you are certified divers and it's not some dive master/guide's job/duty to 'take care of you,' monitor your air supply, etc... At the other extreme, you've got boats with guided dives, you should stick with the guide, he stops periodically & signals everybody to report their gas pressure, another staff diver is behind the group watching for problems, etc...

Approach varies by region. Strangely, it seems like the greatest 'care-taking' is common practice in the most benign conditions (e.g.: some Caribbean locales) yet something similar to the water taxi model most common in more adverse conditions (e.g.: colder, lower viz.).

While dive operator professionals engaging in paternalistic oversight sounds like a good thing to some, it can come back & bite them. In modern litigious U.S. society, if you 'go beyond the call' to do something you're not obligated to do in the cause of taking care of people, there's a bad outcome, and someone claims you were at fault relative to your own policies, you can still get nailed in some situations.

I recently contacted a well-regarded fellow about a charter boat op. he used to own, and asked if he'd indulge my curiosity about why they did (& didn't) do some things in particular ways. One of my questions had to do with them not providing guided dives. He told me:

Not putting guides in the water is mostly based on litigation. The insurance company hates it when we guide dives.

I didn't follow up, but I suspect that if you put guides in the water, you create the appearance of a duty of care.

If you make the Captain routine arbiter of who solos, he lets somebody & that somebody dies, is that apt to be a problem?

Richard.

---------- Post added February 8th, 2015 at 03:22 PM ----------

P.S.: One big impact of the SDI Solo & PADI Self-Reliant Diver courses. They are money-makers for dive op.s, not offered by all competitors, and thus a point of differentiation in a competitive market. But it would be off-cuttingly hypocritical for an op. to teach a solo course but not allow solo diving. So, the introduction of formal solo courses is providing market pressure for at least some dive op.s to allow solo diving. The more who allow it, the more momentum the 'solo movement' builds, working its way toward mainstream presence.

 

[DaleC]

While dive operator professionals engaging in paternalistic oversight sounds like a good thing to some, it can come back & bite them. In modern litigious U.S. society, if you 'go beyond the call' to do something you're not obligated to do in the cause of taking care of people, there's a bad outcome, and someone claims you were at fault relative to your own policies, you can still get nailed in some situations... If you make the Captain routine arbiter of who solos, he lets somebody & that somebody dies, is that apt to be a problem?

That's how I see it. I get that some ops want to cater to vacation clientelle as a value added feature but if I were running a boat in my region I would make a clear delineation between giving a ride to the site and helping/overseeing the dive. I would require a c card for the conditions we were in and emphasize in writing and briefing that divers are responsible for their own dives. I might offer help if requested, or step in if patently dangerous behavior were demonstrated, but I would not inject myself between the diver and the responsibility they already assume.

 

[lowviz]

"Different boats for different folks"... As long as you know - and are happy with - which type of boat your diving on you'll be fine.

:d

Been away for a while, sorry.

Just busting on you a bit. I expected far worse in return.

IMHO the GB is a solid boat, been on it. As far as your post (above) you nailed the NE Atlantic "experience". We all have a preconceived idea of what we want. There is a boat out there that will make it happen.

Yes, they are all taxis, but we have "Cash Cabs", run of the mill Yellow Cabs, stripped "where you wanna go?", and private "get lost, you aren't worthys". Locals rule here, the vacation crowd just isn't happening, but they sure are welcome...
:kiss2:

 

[waterpirate]

We have taxis in the mid atlantic. I do not know how much the insurance company has to do with how they run their taxi. I will say that if my wife ever saw the waivers I routinely sign, my diving would prolly be cut short. Typical waiver up here reads we will recover the body, if we are so inclined at the time, everything else is the divers responsibility.
Eric