Close call with a newbie

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First let me say you did a great job saving this guy from probably drowning. He obviously is a terrible listener and didn't learn a thing from your experience and knowledge. However, as police officer, what I find amazing in this whole story is that you would allow a person you really have no knowledge of to bring a weapon with him. Police officers spend countless hours with new guys on ranges before we even think about letting them get in the car with a loaded gun. We work on shooting skills, adverse condition drills and communication skills-verbal and non verbal. I would like to think with your experience you would have told any new buddy you have never dived with to put spear gun away and lets work on communicating as a team for the first dive regardless of how much he says he's an expert. In this regard I think you showed lack of judgement and instead of just blaming him, you have to take some responsibilty. Make no mistake, I think this guy'a tool, but you have to be more direct when you are with someone who could wind up putting a spear in you back. From your posts, I think you might even be more mad at yourself than him.
You're right it was a gross error and misjudgement on my part to even let the guy bring a gun. But nobody thinks, and I certainly did not, that a speargun can be just as lethal as a firearm at close range. A bunch of my buddies ask me later what I was thinking. Part of the reason he brought it was because he insisted on it. He 's done (according to him) a lot of freedive spearfishihng and claimed he was good at it. When we talked about doing the dive on the phone the night before we were supposed to be more equal buddies going out diving, not me in charge of him, which is what it turned out to be unfortunately. And yeah I am pissed at myself. I've replayed it over and over thinking about what if this happened and what if that would have happened what would I have done. My answer is the way it went down is the way it went down and at least I got him out of the water even though he totally pissed me off and continues to to this day. I did the best I could and it worked, even though it maybe wasn't a perfect textbook rescue but it was a successful rescue with no one hurt.
I think what makes me the maddest though is the fact that he still doesn't get it and doesn't know how close he came to dying.
 
Cool story. I've had people tell me incredible lies about their experience as well.

I would have been very scared of his speargun but two things the OP mentioned seemed strange. One, that you never bring a loaded speargun to the surface (since when is that a problem???? ... for someone who knows what they are doing.

Second he grabbed the divers waist strap, overpowered him and made him do safety stops (plural) for an ascent from 60 feet.. when the guy was incapable of switching second stages and his pressure gage read nearly zero. Making the guy do unnecessary stops when he is "out of air" and on the edge of panic seems like a poor decision to me.

I think I would have done a direct ascent with no stops, especially if it was such a short dive with a guy huffing on a 72 cu-ft bottle. I also think his speargun would have somehow gotten left on the bottom, as well. :no::no:

These rules or guidelines are ones that I use and kind of a loose standard so to speak of excepted speargun ettiquette (sp) where I dive.
With freediving a loaded speargun on the surface is exceptable because divers need to be loaded up and ready when they decend. But, loaded guns are supposed to be pointed down range and pointed away from other divers with the safety on. The safety can come off as a freediver decends or just prior to a shot.
Freediving is also a more solitary sport and if in teams, both divers know what to do and how to conduct them selves with loaded guns on the surface. If you know what your doing there isn't a problem.

With scuba diving I do not like people around me with loaded guns because it's generally a buddy situation of two or more and people decend all at the same time and ascend all at the same time meaning there are other divers in close proximity. There is no reason to have a loaded speargun on the surface with scuba because 99.9% of fish shot are on the bottom around here, and with scuba there's plenty of time to worry about loading your gun underwater. A loaded gun in the water column or on the surface is just trouble. Once on the bottom guns can be banded up and the hunt begun, but guns still need to be kept down range and away from other divers. Guns do go off once in a while by themselves when pins break or triggers wear out. Or a finger could brush against a trigger setting it off.
Another thing is we have some very low vis so care must be taken to know what's behind your target.

So anyway these are the rules that I and my regular buddies go by. Other people may have their own rules.

This guy obviously didn't spear much otherwise he would have known some ettiquette. Even common sense would say you don't go waving a loaded gun around on the surface not paying attention to what you're doing or where you're pointing it when there's other people around.

The ascent from 60 feet: Well, my first reaction was to grab his waist straps and hold on to him and make an OK signal in his mask, like "I got you don't worry about it".
My main concern was just to keep him from blasting to the top. I know that when we got to the surface his gauge was pegged on zero but it could have had 50 lbs in it who knows. From the time I grabbed him on the bottom to when we got to 15feet he was frozen.
I know I had plenty of air, and to tell you the truth I was so F-ing mad and disgusted at this point I guess I figured if he sucked his tank dry he wouldn't have a choice but to grab my reg would he? Maybe then he'd get a clue and suddenly remember a few basic skills if he really thought his ass was on the line. He still thinks it's funny! In fact maybe that's what should have happened to drive the whole reallity of this thing home in his brain. Maybe he wouldn't still be so mouthy.

So as to why I did a stop? I don't know, I just did. Maybe so I wouldn't get screwed up, I guess it's automatic. To tell you the truth our stop at 15 feet lasted about 1 minute before he started clawing and drug me to the top and I couldn't hold him anymore. He didn't run out of air though, but you bring up a good point, I should have just done a constant controlled ascent.

Or, thinking about it later, maybe I wasn't thinking about how much air he had because I was too busy thinking about how I was going to wrap my fingers around his neck when we got back to shore.
 
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That guy deserves to win a Darwin award. I feel sorry for his wife and kids if he's already procreated. Certainly no kid could ever be as good, or good enough, for a super dad like him. Sad, very sad, actually.
 
That was a pretty good story, everyone has the resident expert on everything at work we've got one even when you prove them wrong they turn around and say "thats what I was talking about all the time." My experience, if you have to tell some one how good you are you probably not. I am an assist. Instructor and usually don't tell some one untill I have actually dove with them, becuause, I have opened my big mouth before and been schooled be an OW diver (nothing like what you had) so even if he had the certs legit. it doesnt mean anything. Being a good diver is an ability not a cert. or a (check me out) story!!!!

WHAT A DINK!!!!
 
Someone could make a ton of money selling a permanent marker that you could stamp on the forehead of people like this.

With this type of stamp other would be forewarned. Better yet....

In a former life I was coerced into coaching a t-ball team. One of the other teams had "Coach Nick" as their manager. Mind you, we were working with 5 year-olds. "Coach Nick" was the epitome of a "major leaguer" including the wad of chewing tobacco tucked in his cheek.

One day while waiting for the previous game to end and our game to start, one of "Coach Nick's" parents came up to him with a new hat. The hat had "Coach Nick" stenciled on not only the front but the back and sides as well. The parent explained to "Coach Nick" that his name was on the hat multiple times so it could be seen by everyone that an *sshole was in their presence.

Do everyone a favor, buy your guy a hat.
 
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In a former life I was coerced into coaching a t-ball team. One of the other teams had "Coach Nick" as their manager. Mind you, we were working with 5 year-olds. "Coach Nick" was the epitome of a "major leaguer" including the wad of chewing tobacco tucked in his cheek.

One day while waiting for the previous game to end and our game to start, one of "Coach Nick's" parents came up to him with a new hat. The hat had "Coach Nick" stenciled on not only the front but the back and sides as well. The parent explained to "Coach Nick" that his name was on the hat multiple times so it could be seen by everyone that an *sshole was in their presence.


Thats a great story!!!:rofl3::rofl3::rofl3:
 
Someone could make a ton of money selling a permanent marker that you could stamp on the forehead of people like this.

With this type of stamp other would be forewarned. Better yet....

In a former life I was coerced into coaching a t-ball team. One of the other teams had "Coach Nick" as their manager. Mind you, we were working with 5 year-olds. "Coach Nick" was the epitome of a "major leaguer" including the wad of chewing tobacco tucked in his cheek.

One day while waiting for the previous game to end and our game to start, one of "Coach Nick's" parents came up to him with a new hat. The hat had "Coach Nick" stenciled on not only the front but the back and sides as well. The parent explained to "Coach Nick" that his name was on the hat multiple times so it could be seen by everyone that an *sshole was in their presence.

Do everyone a favor, buy your guy a hat.

If you had said "Coach Bill" I would have thought I know that guy!
:rofl3:
 
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I wait and he finally get's out to me. I ask him what's up and he said he had a leaky mask.

BIG RED FLAG. While everyone has mask problems from time to time, I've noticed that hesitation at the beginning of a dive plus "mask problems" often equals a diver out of their comfort level.

Maybe it's just me.

Something else I'll mention is that I've buddied up on dives with "experienced" divers that actually had more training and experience than I had, but they were wrecks in the water. Diving in a cave, from a boat, on the beach are all very different types of dives, and while someone may be a great cave diver, a beach entry may put them at a disadvantage, and someone who does 40ft dives every weekend is not necessarily prepared for a pair of dives to 100ft.

Not that that is this guys problem though....
 
wow, that was an intense story. I don't use a speargun and don't dive alone, partly because I don't have a lot of dives. I wouldn't stop diving with new divers if I were you though because as a new diver like myself people like me need people like you to learn. It sounded like it had a potential to be a great dive. I never did a beach dive but I would love to someday. I don't mind people touching my valves, and I keep my buddy close for now as I dont have a bailout bottle yet. Thank you for sharing your story.

Its easy to feel unbreakable after being certified if everything went well during your cert. It is that humbling experience that we all have that keeps us grounded.
 
Trust me, this guy is not normal.
The main guy is friends with this jerk and feels sorry for him in a way because they go way back and he knows that if it wasn't for him he'd have nothing to do, so he hires him to basically do nothing.

The jerk has FRIENDS?!?!?!?!!? I'd question the main guy's judgment, IMHO. :shocked2:
 
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