Confessions of a card chaser

[cib]

I think Mustard Dave had a very good point:

there is a good chance you will a) have a load of bad habits to unlearn, or b) be a very competent diver who will get nothing out of the course.

I did very few dives between OW and AOW and glad I did so. I'd rather spend my formative dives with instructors and/or DMs to ensure I don't pick up bad habits and to learn new things early so that I can incorporate those items in to my diving mindset. There are things that I have learned that I would have been unlikely to find myself which are useful and some even essential IMHO that my OW instructor missed or neglected to teach.

I am aiming to complete my RD at some point in 2015 (I don't get to dive often enough to do it now). After that, I'm not sure if I will progress to DM or happily stay at RD.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It really depends on where you dive and what you want to get out of the class. There is no "right" approach that works best for everybody.

I'm one of those instructors who encourages my students to get out and dive between OW and AOW. But I teach in a location where the conditions are typically challenging, and where people who pursue AOW are usually doing so because they want to do some of the more advanced dives. And in order to train them to do those dives they need to have a pretty solid foundation to build on. Also, I don't teach the "typical" AOW class ... it wouldn't be possible to complete my curriculum if you're struggling with the basic skills taught in OW class.

I've had people in my AOW class with as few as 8 dives and as many as several hundred ... and I've always found a way to challenge them and help them learn new things. For those who want to work on improving buoyancy control, trim, propulsion techniques, and other skills learned in OW, I offer a skills workshop ... what some of my students have referred to as a "bridge class" that helps them work on and perfect their foundational OW skills. I've found that this approach helps people become more comfortable, solid basic divers ... and get way more out of the AOW class when they decide they're ready to take it.

My biggest issue with those who go straight from OW to AOW is the deep diver component. Most divers are in no way prepared to go deep after only a handful of dives, and while they will (most likely) do fine as long as nothing goes wrong, they do not have either the physical skills or the psychological wherewithall to deal with something like a flooded mask or a regulator freeflow at the kind of depth one can go to on a deep dive. Many are unprepared to even manage their gas supply on deeper dives ... even after the end of the class ... because the class doesn't prepare them to do much more than "watch your gauge and end the dive with 500 psi" ... which doesn't really give you adequate information to know when it's time to turn around or start heading up.

If you're doing supervised dives, or if you're diving in fairly benign conditions, those concerns become less important. We don't do supervised dives where I live, and so I have to train divers to anticipate and handle problems at depth ... and depth magnifies even the simplest problems. It's for that reason that I don't want to ... and will not ... take divers directly from OW to AOW. Your mileage may vary ... and it will always depend both on where you dive and how much aptitude you have for diving, both in terms of your physical skills and your mental approach to doing it. Just keep in mind that diving's easy till something goes wrong ... then it becomes harder. How much harder depends entirely on how well prepared you are to handle the problem. If your solution is to head to the surface, you're not ready to go deep ... regardless of what it says on your most recent c-card.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Learn It]

Awesome work! I got certified probably 9 years ago while my dad got his c-card in the early 80's! The only difference is I had to wait 3 or 4 years to go warm water diving, he had to wait 25!

 

[Bagster]

Bob, thank you for the thoughtful input. I can't argue against your reasoning.

But I will note, 4 out of 5 of our dives were supervised, and the deep dive was planned almost to the number of fin kicks. We did have a gas management plan; everything was "by the book".

Obviously, all Advanced courses are not created equal. I don't kid myself that we are "Advanced Divers"; I was being ironic about the "card-chasing". But we are, without a doubt, better prepared to dive independently now than we were before this class. Which was really the point of doing it.

It felt like the right choice for us, considering the nature of our OW course, our abilities, and the open water dive sites available to us.

 

[Mustard Dave]

I think Mustard Dave had a very good point:

there is a good chance you will a) have a load of bad habits to unlearn, or b) be a very competent diver who will get nothing out of the course.

I did very few dives between OW and AOW and glad I did so. I'd rather spend my formative dives with instructors and/or DMs to ensure I don't pick up bad habits and to learn new things early so that I can incorporate those items in to my diving mindset. There are things that I have learned that I would have been unlikely to find myself which are useful and some even essential IMHO that my OW instructor missed or neglected to teach.

I am aiming to complete my RD at some point in 2015 (I don't get to dive often enough to do it now). After that, I'm not sure if I will progress to DM or happily stay at RD.

I trained with PADI up to Rescue Diver and have the drysuit, deep and nitrox specialities. I probably wouldn't have bothered with the drysuit in hindsight - I got it because I thought I'd have to hire a suit, (which is difficult unless you can demonstrate competence), however, I bought my own straight after the OW course which I did in a drysuit. I want to dive less explored or even unexplored wrecks so I chose to do IANTD Advanced Nitrox and CCR.

PADI are a business, as are their affiliated instructors and dive centres and will gladly take your money. Some dive centres will try the hard sell more than others. Rescue diver is a good point to get to, but once at that stage, stop and think about what you want. Many dive centres push the DM course on Rescue Divers, even if they have no plans to go pro. Many are pushed through the system as soon as they hit 40 dives and convinced being a PADI-Pro is the pinnacle of diving.

Get to Rescue Diver and do loads of diving - join a club if you can. See what sort of diving you enjoy and decide what route you want to go down. I don't see the point in collecting all the specialities as you can learn all the skills by diving with experienced divers. The deep and nitrox specialities are a bit of an exception as the first allows you to obtain nitrox and use it safely and the second extends the depth you can dive to.

I won't say the DM course teaches you nothing useful - it will polish your skills, but it doesn't qualify you to do anything a Rescue Diver can do other than assist instructors and teach some PADI programmes. Something like an advanced nitrox course or GUE Fundies may be a better option.

If you don't want a career in diving, it can still get you some perks such as free diving if you help out at a local dive centre. For example, I know a DM who retired in his early 50s and moved to Malta. He's gone to a dive centre and told them he'll gladly take holidaying divers on guided dives. He told them he doesn't want paying, but he wants his tanks filling and his kit keeping at their premises. He point-blank refuses to hump kit, pump cylinders or get there at stupid o'clock in the morning to get kit ready for customers. In return he always has somebody to dive with and he gets free transport to the site, and sometimes a space on a boat - this arrangement suits both him and the owner of the dive centre.

Many PADI Professionals are exploited though, so if you do choose to go down the DM route, make sure you aren't being talked into it because they just want to sell another course, or add you to the pool of inexpensive / slave labour.

 

[Scubatude]

Bob, thank you for the thoughtful input. I can't argue against your reasoning.

But I will note, 4 out of 5 of our dives were supervised, and the deep dive was planned almost to the number of fin kicks. We did have a gas management plan; everything was "by the book".

Obviously, all Advanced courses are not created equal. I don't kid myself that we are "Advanced Divers"; I was being ironic about the "card-chasing". But we are, without a doubt, better prepared to dive independently now than we were before this class. Which was really the point of doing it.

It felt like the right choice for us, considering the nature of our OW course, our abilities, and the open water dive sites available to us.

You must always dive making your own choices. I see both side of the "diving between OW and AOW", and I counsel students both directions depending on the student. There is no one way to do it. Doing what is right for you and your dive team is the right answer. Whether it is deciding if the waves are too big today to dive, or there is too much current, or you don't feel right with a certain dive guide, or don't want to go in that swim-through......whatever the case. Deciding what is best for you and your team is the right answer, and a valuable lesson for your daughter. Well done!

 

[dumpsterDiver]

If the OW certified diver has connections to dive with other (more qualified and experienced divers) in a non-instructional setting in easy conditions, then this is probably the best way to dive.. assuming the other divers are very good and attentive mentors.

That is how I learned to dive as a 13 yr old. Some "old guys" they were 40 plus years old, took this strange kid on a quarry dive, then a few shallow night dives in an inlet and then it was on to the NJ wrecks. By then the buddy system was loose, but they had taught me a lot. Those initial dives after certification are super important (and are also relatively dangerous). I followed up with many solo dives in freshwater conditions and by the time I was 15, I was doing solo NJ wreck dives to 130 in doubles and a dry suit. (All without ANY training after the initial Junior Diver course).

However, I think it is unusual for people to find such qualified and accommodating buddies right out of the certification course. That is why I generally recommend that new OW divers take AOW ASAP. If the instructor is decent, the class should not be too dangerous and I think they are safer than doing a bunch of progressively more challenging dives "on their own".

In addition, the newly certified diver is going to forget their newly learned skills VERY fast. It is IMHO, critical that they get back in the water right away and do more dives so that they REALLY learn the skills of diving. A weekend just doesn't cut it. What ever situation gets them back in the water ASAP is probably best.

Nothing wrong with collecting cards...just as long as you don't believe everything it says on them.

In any regard, a normal AOW course is not gonna make you a good diver... only diving will do that.

 

[Searcaigh]

Diving with your daughter is great, probably one of the best experiences I have underwater irrespective of what we see, as my daughter has just over 100 dives now, so everything is still relatively new. But then no two dives are the same.



Luckily her eyes are still new unlike mine and she is great at spotting critters.

 

[kafkaland]

I won't say the DM course teaches you nothing useful - it will polish your skills, but it doesn't qualify you to do anything a Rescue Diver can do other than assist instructors and teach some PADI programmes. Something like an advanced nitrox course or GUE Fundies may be a better option.

I have been on a lionfish hunt off Utila, and only DMs and higher were allowed to spear the buggers. The rest of us were only allowed to spot them. Has anyone else encountered situations where the DM cert allows you to do things that you couldn't do otherwise, that have nothing to do with instruction?