Continued Carbon Monoxide - Cozumel

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Good Points.

Looking at the Analox web site, I see they now sell a "CO Portable" analyzer, but also show under their "New Product" page, an item called the "EII CO analyzer. Do you have any info on the latter?

Finally, in your opinion, would you recommend against the Pocket CO in favor of some of the other CO analyzers?
Their currently listed CO portable is a rebranded unit and I don't think currently available as it's being replaced with the new one actually produced by Analox - but I don't have specs on it yet. It'll be fully introduced next month at DEMA.

The Pocket CO unit has weak points but does work, and it only $200. To me, it's the minimum unit any diver should have if s/he won't spend $300, otherwise - you're diving on hope and old, bad habits of false trust, regardless of whom you get air from.

My next trip, I'll have both and will report on experiences, but the $300 or so Analox is going to be the most popular in the coming year I think.
 
My next trip, I'll have both and will report on experiences, but the $300 or so Analox is going to be the most popular in the coming year I think.

Thanks, I appreciate all your info and effort in this area.

I think I'll try to wait for the new Analox unit - air from my LDS isn't resulting in any "episodes" that I know of. But I really do appreciate all the light you've been shining on this.
 
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Picked up my 4 tanks from the LDS yesterday -- 0 ppm CO in each.

I thought that all these 0 ppm readings would make me complacent about testing gas from the same ole reliable LDS, but the opposite has happened. I seem to be more diligent about testing. Go figure.
 
I have been thinking about posting from the PMs I received from the Coz operator, who gave me permission to post his PMs, but refuses to post openly. What's wrong there? :idk: I have decided to only summarize some points; make of it what you will...
He claims to also be an expert in industrial gas analysis, but does not claim to have ever tested a tank of scuba air on Coz...?

He does a lot of business with the primary fill station which supplies many operators on the island, but I do not know any other details about his business relations?

He thinks that electric compressors cannot produce CO which is simply very wrong and makes me wonder about other possible problems in his thinking and operations.​
I had hoped to dive with this Op in the recent past but now wouldn't get on his boat for anything. I am really shaken by this as I had thot he had a good head on his shoulders, but find myself with much doubt now.

It was really unfortunate that I damaged my CO tester but lucky we had another SB diver onboard most days who had one of a different brand - which agreed with my day one findings and continued to find bothersome CO readings in all other tested tanks. I understand why he does not want to post here, but he is supplying me with info that I think safe to believe. He is also home now and tested his tester against his calgas and on home tanks - finding it to be right on the money in calgas testings @ 10 ppm, while his home tanks tested 3 ppm - a result worth mentioning to his local compressor.

Now I feel very lucky to have survived the 17 ppm tank I dived, but very happy I refused to dive the deeper site we really wanted to do. At least I have a pony with less than 10 ppm but my bud didn't.[/I]

Well, I feel comfortable at this point to chime in and admit that I was the other SB diver on board with Don on these dives!

I can now say that since our trip to Cozumel in August and the questionable CO readings both Don and I experienced that we have both had a continuing dialogue with Dave Dillehay about this potential problem.

For those of you who have not had the pleasure of meeting Dave, he is a rather pivotal individual with dive tourism in Cozumel. He is closely involved with Aldora Divers (probably my favorite operation on COZ!) as well as being tightly linked to Meridiano..... He is, additionally the "expert in industrial gas analysis" Don mentioned in his post. He owns a gas analysis company in the states. Dave is also an avid and experienced diver himself. As such I am sure he shares our concerns for safety.

After spending some time in discussion with him about our concerns, it was obvious to me that he is knowlegeable on the subject, but I initially felt that he was a bit skeptical of our test findings and concerns.

I really didn't know if he would even persue the issue any futher, but much to my surprise I received an e-mail from him last night! Attached to this e-mail were copies of correspondence and invoices that have transpired between him, Memo Mendoza (manager of Aldora Divers), and Analox Sensor Technology.The e-mail and invoices confirm that Dave took this much more seriously than I thought!

They have purchased five (5) in-line CO monitors and necessary installation hardware to be installed at Merdiano!... Additionally they have ordered a portable CO analyzer to be used at Aldora Divers for the tanks that come into the store!

I cannot express to you how surprised and elated I was to hear this!... I feel that this is a huge leap forward for diver safety on the island! Most dive operations (not all, but most) receive their air fills from Meridiano.

I think kudos go out to Dave Dillehay for his concern and action on this situation. Without his direct input this probably would never have happened! I definitely plan to thank him and buy him a big margarita at Wet Wendy's the next time I see him!

For any of you that would actually like to see the correspondence or invoices, please send me a PM and I will forward them to you. Also, if you are curious about my analyzer, again, contact me.

And a big thanks to DandyDon for being a champion of this cause and burning up his key board (figuratively!) posting on SB about this and many other safety issues!
 
Another lurked here. After the incident in the Maldives a few years ago, I bought one of these on Don's recommendation:

30ix3zq.jpg


I'm in coz now, but didn't bring it as I didn't check it early enough and it looks like the batteries are dead or something. If newer, better portable co detectors are available, I'll probably upgrade.
 
Batteries for the Pocket CO are easy to find, same ones as many dive computers - and the inline monitors for the main compressor are no where near in place. Their newer Scuba model has a timer, but you really need the Calibration kit and the special bag they developed. Order those when you get back, or at least look at them.

The Analox portable analyzer is being shipped this week I think.
 
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From another thread...
I should have added that both sensors (O2EII and EIICO) both fit into the little Pelican box that comes with the O2EII.
Now that's neat. I guess you have to lose the fitted foam and maybe replace with enough bubble wrap, or modify it?

And if you didn't get it at Dema, you can order it now for $289.95...!! :eyebrow:

From Leisure Pro: Amoxtec Carbon Monoxide Analyzer
- or -
Scuba Toys: Scuba Gear and Dive Equipment with reviews on sale

Altho I do not know if either really has it in stock and ready to ship? Good prices tho!

OxyCheq offers the Expedition Carbon Monoxide Analyzer which is available at various retailers. This $320 price is the best I have seen on it Oxycheq Expedition CO Analyzer and I'm not sure if you need anything more to use it?

At times divers ask me what the safe maximum for CO is in a tank, not that I am the person to ask, but I explain that it is more complicated than just the partial pressure of CO as you get down. I ran across a pretty good explanation...
Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Underwater

When a scuba diver is underwater with carbon monoxide poisoning, the haemoglobin may be overloaded with carbon monoxide and can’t absorb much oxygen. However, the increased partial pressure of oxygen at depth may result in enough oxygen in the blood to keep the cells oxygenated.

In this situation the diver can function, but when they ascend to a shallower depth, the partial pressure of oxygen will decrease. This will lead to the tissues being starved of oxygen and unconsciousness can occur.
 
At times divers ask me what the safe maximum for CO is in a tank, not that I am the person to ask, but I explain that it is more complicated than just the partial pressure of CO as you get down. I ran across a pretty good explanation...

It is very simple just stick to your local jurisdiction's maximum compressed breathing air CO specification as these typically have been determined by a committee with input from industrial hygienists, physicians, compressor and filter manufacturers, and government regulators.

The variation in the specs between countries is mainly due to the frequency with which the scientific data on CO poisoning is reviewed and incorporated into the standard's revision cycle. For example the CGA Grade E CO specification has not been reviewed for 6 years and now sits at 10 ppm. The US firefighters have reviewed the data in 2008 and lowered their CO spec for air use at 1 atm to 5 ppm. The British HSE reviewed the CO toxicology data in 2009 and lowered the CO specification to 3 ppm for air diving.


Global CO Specifications for Air Diving


Britain: 3 ppm (to 50 metres)
Rest of Europe: 15 ppm (EN 12021 (1998) currently under review)
Canada: 3 ppm (revised in 2010)
Australia: 10 ppm ( to be updated in 2012)
USA: 10 ppm ( last reviewed in 2004 and likely to be updated in 2012)

Of interest is the fact that in both Canada and the USA firefighter compressed air is allowed a maximum of 5 ppm carbon monoxide for use at one atmosphere.

I would suggest that all divers heading to the limit of the sport diving depth range (5 ATA) stick to a maximum of 3 ppm to 5 ppm CO in their breathing air although zero is best.
 
Safe thresholds of CO at sea level varies as suggested, and which source you site - but 15 ppm is my personal limit for say 100 ft dive but that's not a safe suggestion, just a personal call.

Government accepted limits for scuba air...

Canada's diving CO spec for air is 5 ppm

USA with its CGA Grade E is 10 ppm

Australia is 10 ppm

Britain has the tightest CO spec at 3 ppm.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/PUBNS/dvis9.pdf

Rest of Europe is 15 ppm

Much of the world - not controlled


The tightest CO level standard is at my small air-fill center......:D
Its zero PPM CO or no go.:D
"Alien" tanks coming in will be tested, if more than zero PPM it will be bled to empty and refill. After refill ALL tanks regardless alien or shop owned, will be tested , to make sure its zero PPM CO.

I calibrate my Toxirae 3 and QRAE2 once per 60 days and with 10PPM calibration gas, not with a 50PPM commonly sold.

I use Bauer filter cartridge with hopcalite, even though my Mariner is an electric powered. Even without the Hopcalite type cartridge, I still get zero PPM CO because I maintain my compressor working temperature soooooo like taking care of a beauty queen. I am using Bauer bloody expensive synthetic ( I am sure its Chemlube 800 being rebranded ???...no/yes ? ) it cost me US$85 per LITER in my country or US$321 per gallon.......Dang. In USA its like only US$70 per gallon for Chemlube 800. I plan to import 1 drum of Chemlube 800 and do 200 hour oil change instead of crazy 2,000 hours Bauer reccomendation. Again I am stuck, can't ship oil by air..........dang !!!!

It is easy to bump test, I am a smoker, my breath after a stick of cigarrette will yield 10 to 14PPM as long as I blow slow with the provided calibration cup for at least 8 seconds.

It is easy to actually make CO test gas if you have a known accurate detector still in tune and compressor owner is in a remote area. Use aluminum tank, maybe a small one at 19CF. Use a dummy filter from an old cartridge, clean it well from any oil residue, remove all the media and use its casing to prevent filter housing safety hole from discharging air to atmosphere.

Connect a hose to a car exhaust pipe, small one. Place it at compressor intake. Let some CO get into compressor produced air and since the dummy filter cartridge is there, it wont clean the air. Test it after 500 psi fill. Whatever CO level you get, you can reduce it by blending with clean fresh air produced by a compressor with filter cartridge still in service. Just like making Nitrox....:D

A car exhaust will easily produce 100PPM CO ( mine has no catalytic converter ) 2 feet from tail pipe. A Honda Powered compressor, that Honda can produced 200-300 PPM easy within 2 feet from the exhaust pipe.

For me based in Indonesia, shipping CO test gas is a pain. It is US$200 shipping cost alone for a 103 liter by air and before tax and excluding gas purchase price. Tax can be up to 30%. In the end what you guys in USA paid for US$100, I will need to pay US$400 at least. I did import anway but by sea freight tagging along a friend shipment in USA. Its much cheaper......its free shipping actually...:rofl3:

I do not know of Analox product but the ToxiRAE 3 is tough, its mining grade but the calibration cup will damage the receiver clip at the unit. Clip and unclip that thing often, after 500+ actions ( I have tested 1000+ tanks.....hahahaha ) , it will loose its edge and will fail to stay clipped properly. My advice is to use a small line, tie that calibration cup down, let that 1 inch clear hose sticks out. Get a hose of a bit bigger diameter to connect to that 1inch hose when testing. If one buy a BCD clip or hose barb flow limiter from TDL, its hose diameter will be a bit bigger than what RAE supply for the calibration cup anyway.

ToxiRAE 3 have proved stable in my 80% humidity and even at sea where its damn humid . I have two of T3 and 1 of QRAE 2, so it is easy to compare when one goes banana.........which not one ever goes banana........yet.

Instructors attached to my air-fill center will carry T3 on every dive trip when using non shop tanks or when shop tanks will be filled by other compressor at the dive destination.
Getting 3-5PPM CO is so common according to the instructors when other compressor filling my tanks. That tanks will be bled empty once it get back to the shop.

My advantage is this Bauer Mariner is brand new as of May 2010. It has been temperature monitored since day 1 and shut down as soon as it gets too hot at 130C+. So I have the benefit of never ( hopefully ) get too much carbon deposit or oxidize my oil. First oil and oil filter change at 100 hours. That factory filled oil at 100 hours is DIRTY !! Planning to do 350 hours oil change maximum with Bauer synthetic and hopefully 200 hours when I can get my hands on those honestly-priced Chemlube 800.

Oil performance is important, it get "old" with use and will slowly reduce its performance.
Water content in oil is something I am still trying to find out. I know my Mariner pumps 10 liters or air to crankcase as blowby and that is MOIST air. I tested the current oil in use after 100 hours, use what the bio-diesel people call crackle test. Pan fried the oil to see if it bubble from water in oil will pop out. My IR gun is out of action for now and I can't tell how hot the pan is and it is gas type kitchen stove not electric one where I can tune temperature more accurately. I heated the oil hot enough for any water to bubble out if any......but I did not get any, fortunately. Then I add two drops of water and the bubble DID pops out....:D...so it was hot enough.

Oil perfomance going down the hill and with water in it will damage bearings fast, pit the
piston liner and bla bla......SwampDiver has quoted what Chemlube chemist said about oil life is drastically reduce per 10F above 180F or was it 170F ? What ever it is, poor oil will result in more friction in the end and heat will result. If piston liner gets pitting corossion, it will allow oil to be injected into compression chamber, no matter how good the oil rings are on the piston.

This water in oil issue is what I am not sticking to Bauer 2,000 hours oil life.
Temperature wise I do no worry, my oil at pump output is 50C being hottest, at compression area........I can only guess.

I think Ray Contera has wrote once in his post that Coltri MCH-6 need 50 hours oil change or new oil when in long term storage because the final stage piston sits low and in the oil pool. Failure to change the oil fast will cause corossion on that final stage piston from water. Where does the water come from ?
01. Ambient air for sure, same with diesel fuel getting water in boat's tank. Cool nights and hot days will be like a "water maker" from condensation.
02. Surely that 5% typical blow by of all piston has some contribution. Some older block has more than 5% or piston blow-by.


Ted Green can do 4,000+ hours and still his final stage piston is standard and never replaced........WOW !!! But his oil change is very short too.

This is an interesting article on what water can do to oil :
How Water Causes Bearing Failure

Same thing I do for 1,500RPM diesel engines under my maintenance. 100 hours engine oil change using a 400 hours rated super high performance diesel oil ( factory approved oil list only ). Half life oil is because my country fuel is 350ppm sulhur at least, if not 500ppm. Another half life is because oil is cheaper than early major overhaul, so I use 100 hours as guideline and can get easy 8000 hours trouble free engines before over haul.


Later guys......
 

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