Covid-19 (coronavirus) Updates - Liveaboard Cancellation Policy

[Dan]

I compare it to stealing, when you are paid for a service and you don't provide the service. Even going so far as to re-sell your spots that have become available now because we are unable to travel there at no fault of us. Maybe someone who cares so little for their customers should not remain in business. I know this may seem harsh, but I have seen many dive shops and other businesses go out of business because of this very reason.

If they resell your spot and you don't get more than 40% credit, that is really a low blow to the groin. Shame on them.

 

[puncho]

This Covid-19 Pandemic is costing everyone business. I've known Mike a long time and love how he runs his boats. So, I communicated with him to find out why he's doing it this way. It makes sense... at least to me. Here are my takeaways from the interaction...

Like all of Scuba, these trips have a low ROI.
Trip insurance is supposed to cover these things. I was surprised to see the exclusions for pandemic.
Nautilus is dedicated to pay their staff for as long as they can. I'm sure it will be at a reduced salary but I didn't ask.
Nautilus has other monthly bills that they still have to pay.
40% is better than nothing. Way better. It's a high probability that you'll never get to use those who are offering 100% towards your next trip. That's almost guaranteed to bankrupt them.​

There are lots of hard decisions being made around the world due to this pandemic. Mike is one of the most stand up guys in our industry. I like how he does things and will be on one his boats again, I am sure. I know this will not please many, but he wants to stay in business. The real issue is how the insurance companies have figured out a way to not pay. That's just horrid. I guess they don't want to go out of business either.

There are very few insurances that cover for pandemics. You're right that insurances are a problem/bane to society as they never want to pay.

This virus is costing everyone money, Nautilus is not suffering from something that is unique to them. My business is trying to pay staff as long as we can while we're out of work until mid May as mandated by our governor. We weren't even given the choice to work since there is a shortage of masks and so they are funneling it all into the hospitals. We still have a lot of bills to pay as well. I suggested a 50% retention of the deposit and 50% refund so that they may still have the cash to support the business and act as an incentive to rebook with them while mitigating risk for the client but didn't hear back.

If he were a stand up guy, he would at least personally email every single client/diver to explain the situation. I emailed him, haven't heard one peep. If he were a stand up guy he wouldn't ask clients to come dive knowing full well that they likely would have trouble going back home or worse, try to circumvent a travel ban.

 

[drk5036]

There are very few insurances that cover for pandemics. You're right that insurances are a problem/bane to society as they never want to pay.

This virus is costing everyone money, Nautilus is not suffering from something that is unique to them. My business is trying to pay staff as long as we can while we're out of work until mid May as mandated by our governor. We weren't even given the choice to work since there is a shortage of masks and so they are funneling it all into the hospitals. We still have a lot of bills to pay as well. I suggested a 50% retention of the deposit and 50% refund so that they may still have the cash to support the business and act as an incentive to rebook with them while mitigating risk for the client but didn't hear back.

If he were a stand up guy, he would at least personally email every single client/diver to explain the situation. I emailed him, haven't heard one peep. If he were a stand up guy he wouldn't ask clients to come dive knowing full well that they likely would have trouble going back home or worse, try to circumvent a travel ban.

This post more eloquently states what I was trying to say!

 

[Dive and Cruise]

2nd UPDATE

Mexico

Nautilus Liveaboards
Official Announcement - Update as of January 31, 2020 :
We ask that any divers scheduled to join one of our trips that have recently travelled to affected regions in China and are experiencing any flu-like symptoms, to please contact us. If travel is not advised, we will waive any cancellation fees and rebook you onto a later trip without charge.
+
Official Announcement - Update as of Feb 20, 2020 :
We will continue to run all scheduled departures as promised if there is even one diver who wants to head out to Socorro Island unless the government shuts down tourism boats. Nobody has to worry about getting back to USA and Canada. #sharkexpress is on standby if needed for rescue flights.

Australia
The rapid escalation of COVID-19 has seen the Australian government via emergency cabinet meetings, react and update its procedures, policy and safety measures from weekly to daily. At this juncture, the government has put in place measures that will effectively close down business for the next 6 months.

Mike Ball Dive Expeditions
Official Announcement : We are currently not in a positon to make any refunds, therefore any payments made to date will remain on file and can be used to rebook indefinitely, whether your expedition is departing in the next two months, or many months from now. Name changes are permitted, as long as the original guest/s give permission for the credit to be used. All final payments due in the coming months will be suspended until further notice.
**More Information please find at : COVID-19 Travel Update - Mike Ball Dive Expeditions

 

[outofofficebrb]

Honestly, Mike Ball’s indefinite reschedule and name change policy is probably the most generous I’ve seen. Most have a firm time limit. I know this is partially stemming from an uncertain timeline but I suppose that uncertainty also extends everywhere in the world right now.

 

[The Chairman]

If he were a stand up guy,

He is a stand up guy, and we're trying to come up with something that will be good for everyone. We're trying to formulate it so you can recoup most of what you've paid and yet he won't go out of business. If you have EVER been on one of his boats, you know he won't cut corners. He pays a lot of attention to his boats. He pays a lot of attention to his staff. HE PAYS. He's not happy with the current situation, who is? So give him and I a chance to continue our discussion and suss some things out.

Remember, we're in truly uncharted territory here. We've never been through a pandemic, so everyone is learning as we go. It's a fluid situation and there is no "final offer" yet, even if it's given as just that. Oh, I'm sure there will be a time when all this gets set into stone. This is a time of great sifting in our industry just as it is in all industries. Many will not make it through this pandemic, and that includes both people and businesses. I fear for our divers, our charters, our equipment manufacturers and so on. Hell, I fear for ScubaBoard. Who wants to advertise during a pandemic? FaceBook has eaten into our market share and we're one of the few forums still standing. But this is freaky. If you're not pissing in your pants scared right now, you're not paying attention.

It's important that we voice our opinions so that all may read what we want and what we expect. It's also important that we remain rational in our demands so that we don't kill off our industry. We have no idea how long this will last. We have no idea who will come out on the other side ready to take us diving. As one dive op in the Keys put it: It will be business as unusual. Let's stay flexible.

 

[dallaskincaid]

Nobody is questioning the quality of the boats. This would have been my second time around with them and I can state it was the best liveaboard I've ever taken. I'm not even asking for my money back. I WANT to go on this boat. What I can't understand is why he is claiming he will be out of business when he already has my money and I'm not asking for anything back? Go ahead and spend it on your crew and pay your bills. I appreciate that. It would probably be a year before I can even rebook, so why not give me a 100%voucher for my trip? I would be much more understanding if everyone was asking for refunds but it seems to me that nobody was asking for refunds until he started pulling the 40% crap and everyone lost confidence in the company.

 

[dallaskincaid]

Also, I don't know why you are saying "recoup most of your money?" We are recouping 40% of our money which is less than half.

 

[puncho]

He is a stand up guy, and we're trying to come up with something that will be good for everyone. We're trying to formulate it so you can recoup most of what you've paid and yet he won't go out of business. If you have EVER been on one of his boats, you know he won't cut corners. He pays a lot of attention to his boats. He pays a lot of attention to his staff. HE PAYS. He's not happy with the current situation, who is? So give him and I a chance to continue our discussion and suss some things out.

Remember, we're in truly uncharted territory here. We've never been through a pandemic, so everyone is learning as we go. It's a fluid situation and there is no "final offer" yet, even if it's given as just that. Oh, I'm sure there will be a time when all this gets set into stone. This is a time of great sifting in our industry just as it is in all industries. Many will not make it through this pandemic, and that includes both people and businesses. I fear for our divers, our charters, our equipment manufacturers and so on. Hell, I fear for ScubaBoard. Who wants to advertise during a pandemic? FaceBook has eaten into our market share and we're one of the few forums still standing. But this is freaky. If you're not pissing in your pants scared right now, you're not paying attention.

It's important that we voice our opinions so that all may read what we want and what we expect. It's also important that we remain rational in our demands so that we don't kill off our industry. We have no idea how long this will last. We have no idea who will come out on the other side ready to take us diving. As one dive op in the Keys put it: It will be business as unusual. Let's stay flexible.

Thanks for your rational posts, it is more than what Nautilus has communicated with us. I understand he may be a stand up guy to you since you have a personal relationship but to most of us who don't, that is not what we see. I have a very long, critical review that I will withhold for now so hopefully you can discuss with him. As far as I know, my dive agent has been in contact and he has not been open to any changes.

Of course everyone should be scared, many businesses will go under and unemployment they are predicting will shoot through the roof. Regardless, every other vendor (airline, transport, hotel, conventions) I talked to allowed a refund without question. I asked to reschedule at first and it sounds like everyone else did as well. We, the clients, are trying to be flexible too. We also have bills to pay and I'm sure some are already out of work.

The lack of empathy shown has struck a chord with many and if he wants to keep building his brand then he has really taken three steps backwards. There is a way of saying "Hey, times are tough right now, we want to stay in business to serve you in the future. So, we're going to keep your money for now but once this all clears up we will do everything in our power to find a way to get you rescheduled" like most other liveaboards. Instead, he says "Hey, it's still safe to come dive, if you can't come that's too bad. We'll credit you 40% for the future. By the way, did I tell you people are rebooking (probably because they can't leave the country). They are loving it here!!". Or worse, "If you're scared of getting the virus, that's too bad. By the way, we have no way to get you back to the US/Canada/etc since they closed the borders" which they haven't addressed at all/properly. I wasn't scared a week ago, but being in the epicenter of the virus in the US I was scared of spreading it. I had early symptoms, my wife's work set up a covid-19 testing station and her clinic was in contact with covid patients. My sister and brother in law work in major hospitals in the bay area and are short of supply in masks and other equipment and they still haven't seen the surge yet. I felt it was morally right to not go and in hindsight I am extremely glad I didn't put others at risk.

 

[The Chairman]

OK, here is the latest from Nautilus:

"In support and compliance with current Covid19 health measures, we have ceased boat operations until further notice. We will start running trips again as soon as it’s safe. For clients affected by the virus, we will be issuing two 50% credit vouchers for the amount paid per berth. For example, if you paid a deposit of $100 and the trip is cancelled because of the virus, we will issue 2 x credits for $50 each. Both vouchers cannot be combined to one berth, but one of the two vouchers can be transferable. Only one voucher can be applied per person per trip. You can apply the vouchers to 2 different trips, different destinations or bring a partner or dive buddy. The credit will expire 24 months from the time it was offered. As the situation is constantly changing, this is what we are offering at this time, and it may change for other guests in months to come.

Our policy towards medical health workers on the front line in this battle is unchanged. As we stated from the beginning, we are issuing 100% credits for affected health workers. This is very personal for us as some of our own spouses are anesthesiologists and medical staff.

If the closure goes on for many months, this is going to really stress our company financially. But we will borrow more capital and find a way through. We can’t wait to start diving again. We will be around for many years to come. Our strength is our crew and staff and they will get looked after no matter what. Everyone needs to be able to feed their family and pay their rent. We are doing our very best for everyone."​

Personally, I think this is a great compromise. But hey, I don't have any skin in this game. How good it is, is up to you.

Mike's hoping to be back in business soon, but he's prepared for this to take a year. He wants to be able to keep his staff and their families eating, and I'm way OK with that. Like I posted before, Mike is a stand up guy. He's not going to make promises he can't keep. He's thinking things through methodically, so that he can continue to keep serving divers and taking them to awesome places safely.