Cozumel Incident 9/4/11

[Hetland]

Amazing. rec diver on same boat as tec diver doing 300'? and this is common?

Rec/Tech is not unusual. What's the difference between:

- Rec divers doing two 30-minute dives and one 60-minute surface interval
- Tech divers doing one 90-minute dive

Everyone is back on board for the trip home. If someone in either group has an accident, you still have to wait until everyone is on-board before leaving the site.

If rec diver has a problem what is tec diver with decompression left going to do?

He better damn well finish his decompression! What good does it do to add a bent diver to the casualty list? You can't leave divers behind because another diver is injured. The injured diver just has to wait until another boat shows, or until all divers are aboard.

Contrary to popular belief, a dive boat is not a baby-sitting service (or an ambulance). It's a taxi to and from a dive site, the most important element of which, is the ride back to port.

 

[suprane]

Amazing. rec diver on same boat as tec diver doing 300'? and this is common? and if rec diver has a problem what is tec diver with decompression left going to do?

Uhhh?!? Pop his SMB and continue his deco and then hope that their boat or a replacement shows up quickly to pick them up!... Basically deal with the situation. In flying the first rule is: no matter what is going wrong, "fly the airplane!" You can't become so engaged or distracted with other things that you forget the basics. So I am going to finish my dive in a way that it does not jepordize my well being.

This was sort of the case when I was in Granada about a year and a half ago. The boat had rec divers on one side and deco divers on the other. Admittedly we weren't doing 300 ft! But.. We did a dive on the Bianca C. The deck was at 145' to 150'. The super-structure considerably higher.

We all went down at essentially the same time. The deco group dropped on down to the deck while the rec group took a quick look around the higher structures (90' to 100'). I remember watching them above us and then suddenly (after about 3 - 5 minutes) they were gone!.... Wow! We now have the wreck to ourselves. We continued to tool around it for about 20 minutes, and then did our deco. We were down there probably a good 40 minutes or more longer than their group.

Had I heard the boat suddenly churn off into the distance, I (and all others in my group) might have aborted our dive early. But there is no way we would have not done our required deco or put our situation in jepordy. If the boat wasn't there when we surfaced... Oh well! We would deal with that problem then. It is not a perfect world and you can never absolutely, positively plan for every possible scenario or problem. You can, however, plan for enough contingencies that you do stack the odds ever increasinly in your favor! That's why you carry SMB's, signaling devises (whistles and mirrors), cyalume sticks, etc. And on technical dives double or triple redundancy on essential equipment.

 

[DandyDon]

The majority of dive masters in Cozumel are Mexican and fluent in Spanish and English. The one's that aren't Mexican are, if not fluent, then at least very capable of a basic conversation in Spanish. Even with all the boats I see at the beach clubs during an SI, and knowing people who dive with different ships, I've never seen or heard of a situation where a captain and dm couldn't communicate. I believe there's actually a test foreigners have to take in Cozumel to be employed in any position in tourism, which dive shops fall under. They're required to meet a basic level of Spanish. This could be just for owners, but I'm pretty sure I recall hearing it's for employees too.

Sure. Mexico's official language is Spanish. I wish the US had selected an official language when we could have, but yeah - you speak Spanish well if you want to live and work on Coz. I said that some of the captains are not fluent in English.

The role of a captain varies somewhat with geographic locations. In Coz, I believe the captain goes with the boat generally even if it's a rental usually, but his authority may not be as one would expect in other settings. I dunno, he may be more in control than I realize, maybe it's just not obvious - but on 6-8 diver boats with one DM, they work it out. This incident is so unusual, hard to say how that played out?

(I see there are many more posts since I was typing this, so forgive me if someone has made the same comments as mine below)

After reading the last few pages here, I thought I would jump in with a little geography and some other facts about the Villa Blanca Wall dive area.
(Disclaimer-----I have approx 6000 dives almost all in CZM in the 20 years I lived there---no longer live there, so I have been voraciously reading all these threads just like the rest of you and am NOT one of the "silent" who knows anything at all except what I have read here and on other forums)....but the most recent postings are making my head spin.

1) When you dive the VBW, you can easily travel as far as, if not a bit past, the Hotel Cozumel to the north of the Scuba Mau dive shop. There are boats quite often sitting waiting for afternoon dives at HC.

2) Please note how very many folks from SB and other forums have bragged about actually SWIMMING out to do "a shore dive" to the wall. (and how many have reminded them to please take some kind of flag or SMB, etc.......(I believe you have commented many times on this, Dandy Don).

3) The channel in this area is full of traffic returning to either downtown piers, the northern marina, or to hotels south of the downtown and exactly in front of any VBW dive.

4) The car ferry runs twice a day I believe or close to that and so the likelihood of it leaving or arriving mid day might be a moot point..........whatever the schedule, it isn't hourly.

5) The cruise ship piers are quite a bit farther south...........or north but not in this path.......so little danger there, with SMB's up...and most are already moored, I'd guess.

6) If the divers on a boat are not familiar with or briefed about the signals to FORCE them to ascend IMMEDIATELY, it doesn't matter because the DM's surely know and since they are the ones leading the dive they would (or should) immediately obey the captain's orders since HE is the one in charge, not the DM.

7) The marine radio channel for emergencies would have inspired so many to come and help from so close by......( I was once diving in the north---no drama, no craziness, no problems---except that my captain had an engine issue and couldn't get to us.......he radioed and we had ten boats coming to help in less than five minutes......some took us back to town, some towed the poor boat.......someone could have been at VBW even faster.

8) I assume (and would hope) that the PORT CAPTAIN would be aware of any distress calls and had the power to detain any car ferry IF necessary.


So there are a few facts........but as far as "opinions", those "other divers" and their scenario remain a mystery (to me at least), but I would have left them there to go to shore IMMEDIATELY.........knowing that they were with a DM and could actually kick to shore if they had to with a SMB and all of them together.....and knowing that another boat would be there (with 02 hopefully) in minutes in case of another emergency.

This is beyond tragic and like everybody, my prayers are with them all........especially Gabi who saved a life and the poor captain, who I am sure, will never be the same.

That's my two cents..........back to lurking.

Thanks Betty, as you certainly know the island many times better than I do. I may have advised pulling a SMB on a swim out to the wall maybe, but I've never dived it other than on a boat. I'm an old, fat coot and I like boat dives, boats that will take care of me & find me, etc. I'm also weird enough to wear a pony on most dives and a flotation collar anytime a boat moves there. :silly: I would hope that a replacement boat would be out to pick us up if my boat left, but I wouldn't like the situation - nor try to swim ashore from the wall unless I had to.

I dove Villa Blanca wall a few days after this incident and I wouldn't be real fond of trying to swim to shore from the wall at the surface in full gear, especially with a good current like we had that day. That being said if I came up and the captain had taken the stricken divers to shore I would have managed, and floated with my bouy and would have tried to angle towards shore. Their pier would be no more than a few minutes round trip and most captains would know how far the current would have taken me in that amount of time.

first of all, hi betsy! been a long time and i hope you are well.
i spoke to the other dm today and he confirmed the other group and a "normal" depth but not with specifics. tomorrow, if i see him again, i will see if he will give me more info...not for any opportunity for bashing anyone or the dive op, but for the sake of knowledge. i will also try to speak with the captain from that day.
with all the events happening at once, i am sure some level of panic took place. he was calling for help and opal jumped in the water.
it was a planned 1 tank dive. it common practice for boats to carry an additional tank or two on board. this detail is still kinda weird to me too. maybe it was just 2 tanks that he switched. this detail, while not so serious, isn't 100% clear.
betsy, the transpordador runs quite frequently now. today for example, i saw one coming in around 10:30am or so, left shortly thereafter, and another one returning in the area an hour or so later. i thought it weird but the schedules are diff from a few years ago. it is in la caletita, so quite close to the wall exit.
also, the time of the day was weird. it was after the normal 8:30-9 leave the dock time, but before the surface interval/2nd tank.
again, i will try to confirm more info tomorrow and post what i can.
geez, i knew this "other divers" and capt dilemma was interesting, but wasn't expecting another 13 pages!

Thanks. New info there.

This is from post #425 page 43



I know Gabi has been doing these for years and I am sure the other 2 would not go that deep without alot of practice. Do you really think NONE of the captains ever knew what they were doing? Sure they did......Would they stop them? It is slow season on Coz one of the worst in years hotels are at like 20%. You really think ANY dive shop employee is gonna give any kind of crooked opinion to their employer especially this time of year? They could care less......they do what they are told to have a job.......

I think you're pretty well right there.

You NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER leave a diver in the water. I don't care if both of MY legs are cut off, and I'm bleeding to death all over the deck. That's my tough luck. Abandoning unsuspecting boatmates while they are underwater is inexcusable.

Depends on the location really. I can see both sides.

You seem to have forgotten or overlooked that this issue was raised in an earlier post. As in:

.... He works for her!!... Make that read: she hands him his paycheck on a (hopefully!) regular basis! And I can assure you that with the economy of Mexico, he is REALLY THANKFUL to have a job!

He is not going to question anything the "jefe" (boss) does for fear that he may quickly find himself without that all-important income!

Amazing. rec diver on same boat as tec diver doing 300'? and this is common? and if rec diver has a problem what is tec diver with decompression left going to do?

No, not common. Possible, yeah. Last year and previous trips when I had my own dive bud with me, I doubt that either Op's DM knew where we were half of the dives until we popped a SMB. Some Ops may insist on groups staying together, but if the DM is leading - he can only hope that all 8 sorta follow, and we don't well. As far as having rec & tec together on a sixpack boat, yeah unusual - but it could happen. Since all were on single tanks (dumb or not) there couldn't have been a great variance in surfacing.

 

[coco2003]

Tech and recreational diving don't mix in the same boat, period. Going back to everything said, this is just part of all the irresponsible planning of a dive by non certified tech divers and right now they are suffering the consequences. I was in Cozumel when this happened. There are still some issues prior to the dive that have not surfaced but they will.

Because of this unfortunate accident, the topic of how safe is to dive in Cozumel surfaced. I have been diving there for more than 12 years and have logged over 150 dives, and I have never experienced a downdraft but has always been on my mind in the event that it happened and how to deal with it. I have enjoyed all the swift drift dives but the last 6 years I have enjoyed more underwater photography. This year was an exception because of the strong currents and was able to do 3 out of 8 dives and unable to take pictures due to the currents. Prior to this accident had ocurred, the last issue of Scuba Diving magazine portrayed "8 Daring Dives" and Cozumel is mentioned right there because of its downdraft currents at Santa Rosa and Barracuda reef and its swift drift diving. The bottom line is that Cozumel is a great dive site, perhaps one of the best but not for the recently certified diver. Like any other place in the world, you sign a waiver (this will abe another topic...lots of lying) and you are on your own...still Cozumel divemasters provide one of the best guidance worldwide.

I wish a prompt recovery for Opal, Heath and Gaby.

 

[boulderjohn]

As far as having rec & tec together on a sixpack boat, yeah unusual - but it could happen.

Tech and recreational diving don't mix in the same boat, period.

I'm sorry, but this was not a case of tech and recreational on the same boat. That can be done well, with careful planning, although it is unusual.

This was a case of two recreational groups on one boat, with one of them (at least) far exceeding recreational standards in both their plan and their execution. If you think I am playing some kind of semantics game, then you don't recognize the difference.

If the second party was a group of standard recreational divers watching their heroes prepare for and execute this dive, then I am even more concerned than I was before. Was it common practice for them to go out and do 300 foot dives on a single air tank on the same boat as recreational divers looking to them as role models?

 

[rigdiver]

Rubbish. Proper captains frown on their charges at all different depths. too much compication tracking and recovering everyone on different schedules.

I know of many places you have not been. Seen it many, many times with nothing going wrong.

 

[coco2003]

I'm sorry, but this was not a case of tech and recreational on the same boat. That can be done well, with careful planning, although it is unusual.

This was a case of two recreational groups on one boat, with one of them (at least) far exceeding recreational standards in both their plan and their execution. If you think I am playing some kind of semantics game, then you don't recognize the difference.

If the second party was a group of standard recreational divers watching their heroes prepare for and execute this dive, then I am even more concerned than I was before. Was it common practice for them to go out and do 300 foot dives on a single air tank on the same boat as recreational divers looking to them as role models?

That's precisely what happened, very well summarized.

 

[Brules]

I've personally been on a boat in Cozumel - whole group did Santa Rosa Wall to 90-100', a personal friend of the DM (a local guy) was with us and he did the wall at 150'+.....solo. Surfaced well after the main group and DM, probably 15-20 minutes after us. I *think* he said he hit 170', not sure though. This was '07 or '04.

 

[DandyDon]

I've personally been on a boat in Cozumel - whole group did Santa Rosa Wall to 90-100', a personal friend of the DM (a local guy) was with us and he did the wall at 150'+.....solo. Surfaced well after the main group and DM, probably 15-20 minutes after us. I *think* he said he hit 170', not sure though. This was '07 or '04.

I think it is fine to tell an Op that you don't want to be on the same boat as such.

 

[aquaregia]

I was on a charter where there was a medical emergency with a diver from a different boat. We had five fairly experienced divers in two teams, and two divemasters (who both happened to be T2 divers), and very benign conditions at a common dive site on the edge of a cliff. The captain left a large liftbag on the upline then rushed the stricken diver to medical aid. He arranged for us to be collected by a different dive boat once we'd all surfaced.

A different situation of course, but that was no problem at all. I think there are situations under which it's fine to leave people underwater.