Cutting tests - which materials?

[KDAD]

Thank you, though the webbing cuts are less what I was thinking of as it would be a known part of the divers equipment rather than an unknown hazard, I'm interested in the cut performance on this. What is quite variable is the resilience of the material. My intention is to source some seatbelt type of webbing (herringbone) as this will be the toughest.

Good call, and worth a try. As with the webbing, this was not the sort of hazard I was thinking of and an entanglement hazard, but I'm considering including this.

Don't limit your testing to the actual entanglement hazards only. What if you are entangled and can only get free by cutting the harness webbing of your bc? Or if you have to cut a bc off of a diver during a rescue? Harness webbing should be included.

As far as zip ties, same comment. What if the thing you are entangled in can't be cut but the zip tie can be? Not having a metal to metal connection such as between a stage tank harness and a bolt snap is a core belief among many of us because that may be the only place that can be cut during an entanglement and needs to be nonmetallic. Ordinarily cave line is used but I have seen zip ties used.

Additionally, many of us put our cutting implements to dual use. They are for entanglements while underwater but while on the surface, well who knows.

 

[RainPilot]

Well, FWIW I just spent some time on your site ( www.tacticalreviews.co.uk ) looking through the reviews at (more or less) random and you seem to be pretty evenhanded with your comments etc. Just a suggestion, maybe if you mention in each review where you got the item it would help people to decide how much salt to take the review with

Not to say you don't but I didn't see it on the 5 reviews i read

I think that the more interesting list , for me anyway, would be what cutters you plan on testing. I think the materials are pretty much covered but a suggested list of tools would be interesting.

My contribution? The Dive Rite cutters / Trilobite

 

[TacticalReviews]

Well, FWIW I just spent some time on your site ( www.tacticalreviews.co.uk ) looking through the reviews at (more or less) random and you seem to be pretty evenhanded with your comments etc. Just a suggestion, maybe if you mention in each review where you got the item it would help people to decide how much salt to take the review with

Not to say you don't but I didn't see it on the 5 reviews i read

I think that the more interesting list , for me anyway, would be what cutters you plan on testing. I think the materials are pretty much covered but a suggested list of tools would be interesting.

My contribution? The Dive Rite cutters / Trilobite

On my website I have a coverall 'Disclosure' in the 'About' menu. I've done this for stylistic reasons so on my own website I don't have to keep repeating the same disclosure. This pretty much does cover it as 99% of the time the item has been provided by the manufacturer, so for example if it is a Leatherman tool on test, then Leatherman supplied it. When it varies from this, I would normally state where it came from (like the ZTS MBT-1 review).

On forums, where I like to post reviews to get the type of discussion only forums allow, the rules usually require the disclaimer/disclosure/statement to be in the individual thread. So if I post the final review here, I would have this disclosure at or near the top of the review; if I forget, call me out on it then so I can fix that.

Not to make this thread about the forthcoming review, but the list so far is:

Spyderco Salt Assist
Benchmade 122B H2O Dive knife
Promate KF529 - Barracuda Blunt Tip Titanium Diving Knife (4 1/2 In Blade)
Promate KF593 - Sharp Tip Titanium Diving Knife (4 3/8 In Blade)
Promate KF090 - Seal Titanium Folding Knife (3 1/2 In Blade)
Promate KF505 -Blunt Tip Diving Knife (4 3/8 In Blade)
Promate KF001 - Line Cutter
Whitby DK9 (MAC Coltellerie Apnea9)
Whitby DK511/14 (MAC Coltellerie Sub 16)
Whitby DK11 (MAC Coltellerie Aquatys)

I am also expecting a couple more, but the ones in this list are confirmed as I have them already and am part way through the review process (which starts with studio photography).

I can't just go and buy test candidates as it would never end. The costs are bad enough on test materials, equipment, travel etc. Already this test has grown larger than I expected and if the last entries do arrive there will be 13 cutting tools to cover.

So as it stands the materials list is:

15lb Monofilament - typical main line fishing line.
50lb Monofilament - typical monofilament leader.
15lb Dyneema - dyneema main line equivalent.
115lb Dyneema - heavy dyneema leader.
2mm Nylon Braid - to represent netting and cave line.
3-4mm Nylon Braid - to represent netting and cave line.
50mm heavy duty webbing.
Cable-ties.
(I'm not including steel cable leaders or any other metal cables)

Hopefully the results will be interesting and useful. If nothing else the review will provide a close up look at all of these knives/tools.

 

[KDAD]

Trilobite. Must have addition to your list. Widely used and recommended around here and testing it would add realism to your test as it may be the only cutter many of us carry.

 

[RainPilot]

Oops, I missed the blanket disclaimer.

From your list, its obvious that you have a manufacturer or 2 sending you some items for test. No problem at all with that but you'll find that the tests are of limited use in an environment where most are not using that style of cutter.

I, and I suspect many others here, haven't carried a traditional dive knife in a VERY long time. The novice diver will carry a leg mounted long blade knife initially and then realise that they are not very useful for the actual purpose, i.e. disentanglement. In fact, many of them create more of an entanglement hazard as well as a significant hazard for suit penetration and cutting yourself. That doesn't mean they don't serve a purpose ( i use a blunt tip one for abalone harvesting) but not as a line cutting tool.

My personal cutting tools are a Dive Rite cutter (same as a Trilobite really) of which i have 3 mounted on my rig and a pair of titanium coated trauma shears that live in my right hand thigh pocket. They are in a sheath and are really there for cutting off a wetsuit or gear on the boat in an EMT type situation. They also cut thin cable like steel fishing leader etc very well should i ever need that.

When reviewing diving knives, a point to consider is the corrosion resistance. Specifically, are there steel pins etc that you can't get to to lubricate or are there water traps in the design that make freshwater rinsing difficult.

 

[TacticalReviews]

Trilobite. Must have addition to your list. Widely used and recommended around here and testing it would add realism to your test as it may be the only cutter many of us carry.

I've contacted Eezycut to see if they would like to be involved.

Oops, I missed the blanket disclaimer.

From your list, its obvious that you have a manufacturer or 2 sending you some items for test. No problem at all with that but you'll find that the tests are of limited use in an environment where most are not using that style of cutter.

I, and I suspect many others here, haven't carried a traditional dive knife in a VERY long time. The novice diver will carry a leg mounted long blade knife initially and then realise that they are not very useful for the actual purpose, i.e. disentanglement. In fact, many of them create more of an entanglement hazard as well as a significant hazard for suit penetration and cutting yourself. That doesn't mean they don't serve a purpose ( i use a blunt tip one for abalone harvesting) but not as a line cutting tool.

My personal cutting tools are a Dive Rite cutter (same as a Trilobite really) of which i have 3 mounted on my rig and a pair of titanium coated trauma shears that live in my right hand thigh pocket. They are in a sheath and are really there for cutting off a wetsuit or gear on the boat in an EMT type situation. They also cut thin cable like steel fishing leader etc very well should i ever need that.

When reviewing diving knives, a point to consider is the corrosion resistance. Specifically, are there steel pins etc that you can't get to to lubricate or are there water traps in the design that make freshwater rinsing difficult.

I've done a lot of reading and understand your points. However there are also opposing arguments to the value of carrying a knife.

The purpose of my review will not be to say to you that you really should carry one of these, but to provide readers with information which might help them choose a knife if that is what they want to carry. The knife / no knife discussion is not relevant.

As a person who is never without a knife (except in an aircraft when I can't help it - though I still have a small cutter on me) I am always of the mind of 'just in case' and would rather carry than not carry. I will also be harvesting the fruits of the sea when I can so will be using the knives for tasks other than line cutting. If I feel like it I would have no concerns carrying a BFK, or not.

The cutting tests referred to in this thread are a tiny part of the whole review.

You are right to raise corrosion resistance as this is one factor I'm intending to push hard. I'm not going to rinse any of the test subjects during the testing period, and only clean them all and check for corrosion at the end of the test. It goes against the grain to do this as it feels like abuse, but there will be times you forget or for other reasons don't clean a knife when you should.

 

[RainPilot]

@TacticalReviews no worries at all, Im playing Devil's Avocate a bit. Ive been the beneficiary of a lot of reviews done by people like yourself and Im glad there are those who take the time to do these tests and put the results out.

I look forward to seeing the results even though they might not apply directly to me. The tests that WOULD apply directly to me would be of the various other cutters that are touted on the boards as being the greatest since toasted sammiches, hopefully someone will do one of those sometime.

In the meanwhile happy slicing!

 

[Shotmaster]

I have an appreciation for knives and cutters as both tools and as weapons as I have used them as both during my military career and my diving adventures. I have cut through everything from steel packing bands, brass lock shackles, zip ties, nylon webbing, rubber, wood, heavy card board, clothing, to vegetation in forests and jungles. Knives are tools, and just like anything, the more specialized the better they will perform a certain task at the loss of functionality doing other tasks. I have had to "make do" with what I brought with me and have a couple of knife failures, in materials and design which happened early in my career. I solved the problem with a Randal Model 14 fighting knife. I saw a lot of failures that others had with the latest "perfect" knife. Nothing like actually using a knife in the real world! . I carry three cutting tools diving. A very small BCD mounted flat point, serrated on one edge straight edge on the other knife, a hook type line cutter, and my 40 year old stainless "Sea Hunt" special, which is a huge knife, to deal with whatever the other two can't. I look forward to seeing the results of the testing!

 

[lemke]

Another suggestion is to test maximum diameter of rope/cord that is feasible to cut with each cutter you're testing. Shrimper nets is what comes to mind...

 

[TacticalReviews]

Another suggestion is to test maximum diameter of rope/cord that is feasible to cut with each cutter you're testing. Shrimper nets is what comes to mind...

I'd love to, but my problem is sourcing suitable material to cut (which pretty much means finding it as I'm not going to buy heavy gauge ropes. I'll do some asking about at my local marina, fishermen and sailing clubs and see what I can come up with.