Code Monkey
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I'm looking into EPIRBs for that, exact, reason. I'm curious about licensing in foreign countries and how common the receivers are at remote sites.
Dan Grenier lost at sea.
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Hi Tom,
That was a wonderful post and your sharing earlier on location experience is useful in helping us try to comprehend what happened. It also raises questions when I look at the report in this months Undercurrent based on an interview with a diver on board that day.
BTW, I likewise have been diving for well over three decades and instructing for 12 years just like Dan. I am always still learning about diving.
Its pretty clear that Dan and Danielle were going in with a strong current, in fact that was the reason the dive was done like it was. This was the second dive of the day and it started about 11:30 AM. The four guests were dropped off at Pot Luck with the D/M and Dan and Danielle were taken to the windward side at Maytag. The boat went back to the leeward side and took the first group back on board at the end of their dive. The group on board then had lunch there on the leeward side. During that time according to one of them No one looked out for Dan and his charge, nor paid much attention to the sea.
After lunch the boat moved 200 yards away, with no sign of Grenier and Gibbons. At that point the divers did a third dive.
During or at the end of that dive? Alisi started searching for Grenier and Gibbons, but picked up the other divers as they surfaced. There were strong currents with fluky up and down drafts on that third dive. It was 2:30 PM. If the pair was drifting, they could have been several miles away. At that point the search was started. This seems to be roughly a couple hours after the second dive should have been finished.
Does anyone with direct knowledge dispute this timeline or description?
Ill cover what bothers me about Danielles gear in another post.
BC
BTW, Brad has now gone missing?
That was a wonderful post and your sharing earlier on location experience is useful in helping us try to comprehend what happened. It also raises questions when I look at the report in this months Undercurrent based on an interview with a diver on board that day.
BTW, I likewise have been diving for well over three decades and instructing for 12 years just like Dan. I am always still learning about diving.
Its pretty clear that Dan and Danielle were going in with a strong current, in fact that was the reason the dive was done like it was. This was the second dive of the day and it started about 11:30 AM. The four guests were dropped off at Pot Luck with the D/M and Dan and Danielle were taken to the windward side at Maytag. The boat went back to the leeward side and took the first group back on board at the end of their dive. The group on board then had lunch there on the leeward side. During that time according to one of them No one looked out for Dan and his charge, nor paid much attention to the sea.
After lunch the boat moved 200 yards away, with no sign of Grenier and Gibbons. At that point the divers did a third dive.
During or at the end of that dive? Alisi started searching for Grenier and Gibbons, but picked up the other divers as they surfaced. There were strong currents with fluky up and down drafts on that third dive. It was 2:30 PM. If the pair was drifting, they could have been several miles away. At that point the search was started. This seems to be roughly a couple hours after the second dive should have been finished.
Does anyone with direct knowledge dispute this timeline or description?
Ill cover what bothers me about Danielles gear in another post.
BC
BTW, Brad has now gone missing?
Symbion
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Geez...you hate to hear of things like this happening. We had a similar experience, thankfully with a happy ending. We fought current on many dives in Fiji, ergo the lush growth on the reefs and appearance of large pelagics. On one particular dive, not only did we have a ripping current, but vis of about 20'. We were diving two bombe's and you couldn't see from one bombe to the next. I, myself, didn't run into any of the other divers until 30 minutes into the dive.
By the time you hit the water, you could no longer find your buddy. The current had carried them away and the vis made it impossible to see. All but one diver returned to the boat. She had gotten separated from the rest of the group and quickly surfaced, using her safety sausage and horn to signal the dingy, which never saw or heard her. The seas were so rough that her sounds were silenced, and the current was rapidly carrying her out to sea and out of visual range.
It took one and a half hours to locate her, and I was never so happy to see anyone in all my life. Some of the dive boats in Fiji have been using electronic devices which attach to the diver's BC. The onboard monitor picks up a signal from the diver from some unbelievably long range, making them easier to locate.
By the time you hit the water, you could no longer find your buddy. The current had carried them away and the vis made it impossible to see. All but one diver returned to the boat. She had gotten separated from the rest of the group and quickly surfaced, using her safety sausage and horn to signal the dingy, which never saw or heard her. The seas were so rough that her sounds were silenced, and the current was rapidly carrying her out to sea and out of visual range.
It took one and a half hours to locate her, and I was never so happy to see anyone in all my life. Some of the dive boats in Fiji have been using electronic devices which attach to the diver's BC. The onboard monitor picks up a signal from the diver from some unbelievably long range, making them easier to locate.
MaryMuir
Registered
It's amazing how much misinformation the Fiji Police manage to put out. First they said Dan and Danielle were dropped at the reef at 8 am and they told the boat to come back for them at 2 pm (the boat left the dock at 8 am), which is why they say the disappearance is suspicious, now they are claiming they found Danielle's wetsuit??
A few days after the BCD was found, I was contacted by Dan's office. The police were saying that they had found a woman's bather in the Yasawas. It was not found with the BCD, it was found elsewhere, after they started searching the Yasawas for Dan and Danielle. It was a pink one piece bathing suit. I had never seen Danielle wear something like that, and I had dived with her. Nobody else at Dan's remembered Danielle wearing a bathing suit like that. Danielle wore a rash guard shirt over her 2 piece suit and under her wetsuit when she went diving.
I later saw an article in Australia that had elevated the bather to a "bodysuit". Then someone started asking if we had found a wetsuit. I don't know who started claiming it was a wetsuit that was found, but no wetsuit has ever been produced for identification. As far as I know, only a pink bathing suit was found and it wasn't with the BCD and it was never identified as Danielle's.
A few days after the BCD was found, I was contacted by Dan's office. The police were saying that they had found a woman's bather in the Yasawas. It was not found with the BCD, it was found elsewhere, after they started searching the Yasawas for Dan and Danielle. It was a pink one piece bathing suit. I had never seen Danielle wear something like that, and I had dived with her. Nobody else at Dan's remembered Danielle wearing a bathing suit like that. Danielle wore a rash guard shirt over her 2 piece suit and under her wetsuit when she went diving.
I later saw an article in Australia that had elevated the bather to a "bodysuit". Then someone started asking if we had found a wetsuit. I don't know who started claiming it was a wetsuit that was found, but no wetsuit has ever been produced for identification. As far as I know, only a pink bathing suit was found and it wasn't with the BCD and it was never identified as Danielle's.
Hello All,
I found Brad and talked to him today. Brad was able to answer a dozen or more questions that I had.
One of the first was about Danielles wetsuit. He said it was not found; thats a big deal. The reports otherwise are wrong. We went over in detail the condition of Danielles BC (SCUBA Unit). It was found just after Brad left but he was on the phone talking to Mike D. at the police station right after it came in. I understand that there are digital pictures, but I havent seen them.
Brad has done that site dive and his description of what happened that day based upon his first hand interviews fits with what would have been normal for Dan and his crew. A distorted view based upon miss-information is common and those that went to search are somewhat burned out in dealing with it. The sites are much closer together then has been suggested and even in rough weather they should have been able to find Dan and Danielle.
Unfortunately, the conclusion of Dans very close friend is that he screwed up. Besides dealing with the loss, the huge frustration is in not being able to figure out how.
Thank you to Mary and others here for your patience and careful posting while I chased the fairy storys in my mind.
BC
I found Brad and talked to him today. Brad was able to answer a dozen or more questions that I had.
One of the first was about Danielles wetsuit. He said it was not found; thats a big deal. The reports otherwise are wrong. We went over in detail the condition of Danielles BC (SCUBA Unit). It was found just after Brad left but he was on the phone talking to Mike D. at the police station right after it came in. I understand that there are digital pictures, but I havent seen them.
Brad has done that site dive and his description of what happened that day based upon his first hand interviews fits with what would have been normal for Dan and his crew. A distorted view based upon miss-information is common and those that went to search are somewhat burned out in dealing with it. The sites are much closer together then has been suggested and even in rough weather they should have been able to find Dan and Danielle.
Unfortunately, the conclusion of Dans very close friend is that he screwed up. Besides dealing with the loss, the huge frustration is in not being able to figure out how.
Thank you to Mary and others here for your patience and careful posting while I chased the fairy storys in my mind.
BC
I never met Dan but I´m real touched for everything wrote about him. I just want to be as courageous as him regarding to live my life - chase my dream ...
My prayers goes with Dan´s and Danielle´s family and friends. That God bless them all.
My prayers goes with Dan´s and Danielle´s family and friends. That God bless them all.
After reading some personal accounts in this thread, just out of curiosity, do operators over there require drift dives be done while tendering a dive flag? I've been reading that divers just deploy their SMBs upon surfacing, but the boat could be over a mile away by that point.
UncleDansFans
New
Hello Everyone:
This is Stacy Kaliszewski, Dans neice in-law. My mother in-law is Dan's sister, Janet.
I am writing to first of all thank everyone for all that they have done for Uncle Danny. He was obviously a very loved and admired person by so many people. His family here in the states had no idea how he touched so many people all over the world. We knew how great he was, but it is very consoling to know that so many others were able to share that amazing love.
The second reason that I am writing is to ask any of you who have pictures or video of uncle Dan and his family (as is mentioned in the message from ScubaTom); it would be greatly appreciated if you could somehow get me copies of them. We have some pictures, but since we only saw him once a year or so breifly, we don't have many. It would be nice for his family to have some pictures to remember him by. If anyone has any digital pictures that they could send me I would be so greatful. My email address is skaliszewski@comcast.net. I should be able to recieve quite a few photos at that address. If you can't email them, you can mail a CD of them to: Stacy Kaliszewski, P.O. Box 107, Hartland, MI 48353. I really appreciate any response I get to this request. Janet and her children would be so greatful.
Thank you again for all of your thoughts and prayers during this very difficult time for all of us. We also appreciate those who have offered their time, money and experise in the dive world. Before we learned of this forum we knew nothing about diving other than that was what Uncle Danny did.
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
Stacy Kaliszewski
QUOTE=ScubaTom34]At this point, I think we are all realizing there is not going to be a good ending to this accident. I hope everyone involved in the search will share all possible information on the events so that we can learn from this terrible loss of our good friend.
Thanks, Mary Muir, for filling in lots of the details on Danielle's gear and the swimsuit that wasn't her's. I also agree totally with your assessment of the Dive Alert horn in the conditions there.
Last December we dove Pure Magic in similar conditions. I spent the dive doing video of Dan and Cory. Dan was practicing buddy breathing with him, shutting his air off a couple times to make sure he reacted right, which he did. Then they played with a bunch of cleaner shrimp on Magic Mountian, Dan had them crawling into his mouth, then Cory tried it too. The dive plan was to end the dive with a safety stop hanging on the mooring line atop Magic Mountain in the current, then surface and be picked up by the boat. The problem came when the mooring line was missing. You could hide from the current at about 20 feet at the top of the mountain, but once above that, the current was too much to hold your position against, at least with a big video system. I stayed at 20 feet as long as I could, then went to ten and was trying to hold my position when I saw the boat come back after picking up other divers from down current. At that point, I decided to stop fighting the current, relax and go with the flow. Even though I cut that stop short at three minutes, when I surfaced, the boat was 200-300 yards away in 4-5 foot seas. My first move was to blast on my Dive Alert horn every time I was on a crest and could see the boat. As Mary points out, when the wind is wrong and the water rough, they can't hear it. Next, I started fumbling around trying to get my sausage out while hanging on to my video system, very hard to do. Fortunately, Alisi was on top of the cabin scaning the water and looked my way while I was on a crest and saw me wave.
Ever since Dan and Danielle went missing, I've gone over and over this dive in my mind. What they were in was probably much more extreme both in regards to current and surface conditions. Knowing how fast I was moved away from the boat that I was directly under three minutes earlier, I can easily understand how they could have been totally out of reach before they surfaced.
So what to do in the future? Two things have been foremost in my mind. Early on, George Taylor mentioned that never again will he buy black gear for rental equipment. I had never thought of it, but bright colored BC's and wetsuits are a great idea in a search situation. I know Dan, just like me, always had a black one. Hell, 30 some years ago when we started diving, that is all there was, and I never gave it a thought. The bright colors looked great on the pretty girls.
The other thing I have thought of, is a review I read a year or two ago of a safety sausage developed by photographer Stephen Frink, stephenfrink.com. This is a 6 foot tall, BC mounted giant sausage. He developed it to be a hands-free system for people with their hands full of camera gear. Inflate your BC, pull the ripcord, and it's up there. At the time, I decided a six foot sausage was overkill, and it was a bit pricey too. Now, the advantage of that giant, that is permanently errect as long as your BC is inflated, appears priceless. You would be visible at a much longer range to search vessels and planes, plus, how long could you hold up that hand-held version we all carry? Think of the boat that is looking for you, that is just out of your sight. I'm not sure if that sausage can be retrofitted to my Zeagle Ranger BC, but I intend to have one before my next trip into similar waters.
I still hope my good friend is found. My hat is off to all the family members of both Dan and Danielle who have posted to this list, you have handled this extremely well, and have my deepest sympathy.
Tom Reese[/QUOTE]
This is Stacy Kaliszewski, Dans neice in-law. My mother in-law is Dan's sister, Janet.
I am writing to first of all thank everyone for all that they have done for Uncle Danny. He was obviously a very loved and admired person by so many people. His family here in the states had no idea how he touched so many people all over the world. We knew how great he was, but it is very consoling to know that so many others were able to share that amazing love.
The second reason that I am writing is to ask any of you who have pictures or video of uncle Dan and his family (as is mentioned in the message from ScubaTom); it would be greatly appreciated if you could somehow get me copies of them. We have some pictures, but since we only saw him once a year or so breifly, we don't have many. It would be nice for his family to have some pictures to remember him by. If anyone has any digital pictures that they could send me I would be so greatful. My email address is skaliszewski@comcast.net. I should be able to recieve quite a few photos at that address. If you can't email them, you can mail a CD of them to: Stacy Kaliszewski, P.O. Box 107, Hartland, MI 48353. I really appreciate any response I get to this request. Janet and her children would be so greatful.
Thank you again for all of your thoughts and prayers during this very difficult time for all of us. We also appreciate those who have offered their time, money and experise in the dive world. Before we learned of this forum we knew nothing about diving other than that was what Uncle Danny did.
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
Stacy Kaliszewski
QUOTE=ScubaTom34]At this point, I think we are all realizing there is not going to be a good ending to this accident. I hope everyone involved in the search will share all possible information on the events so that we can learn from this terrible loss of our good friend.
Thanks, Mary Muir, for filling in lots of the details on Danielle's gear and the swimsuit that wasn't her's. I also agree totally with your assessment of the Dive Alert horn in the conditions there.
Last December we dove Pure Magic in similar conditions. I spent the dive doing video of Dan and Cory. Dan was practicing buddy breathing with him, shutting his air off a couple times to make sure he reacted right, which he did. Then they played with a bunch of cleaner shrimp on Magic Mountian, Dan had them crawling into his mouth, then Cory tried it too. The dive plan was to end the dive with a safety stop hanging on the mooring line atop Magic Mountain in the current, then surface and be picked up by the boat. The problem came when the mooring line was missing. You could hide from the current at about 20 feet at the top of the mountain, but once above that, the current was too much to hold your position against, at least with a big video system. I stayed at 20 feet as long as I could, then went to ten and was trying to hold my position when I saw the boat come back after picking up other divers from down current. At that point, I decided to stop fighting the current, relax and go with the flow. Even though I cut that stop short at three minutes, when I surfaced, the boat was 200-300 yards away in 4-5 foot seas. My first move was to blast on my Dive Alert horn every time I was on a crest and could see the boat. As Mary points out, when the wind is wrong and the water rough, they can't hear it. Next, I started fumbling around trying to get my sausage out while hanging on to my video system, very hard to do. Fortunately, Alisi was on top of the cabin scaning the water and looked my way while I was on a crest and saw me wave.
Ever since Dan and Danielle went missing, I've gone over and over this dive in my mind. What they were in was probably much more extreme both in regards to current and surface conditions. Knowing how fast I was moved away from the boat that I was directly under three minutes earlier, I can easily understand how they could have been totally out of reach before they surfaced.
So what to do in the future? Two things have been foremost in my mind. Early on, George Taylor mentioned that never again will he buy black gear for rental equipment. I had never thought of it, but bright colored BC's and wetsuits are a great idea in a search situation. I know Dan, just like me, always had a black one. Hell, 30 some years ago when we started diving, that is all there was, and I never gave it a thought. The bright colors looked great on the pretty girls.
The other thing I have thought of, is a review I read a year or two ago of a safety sausage developed by photographer Stephen Frink, stephenfrink.com. This is a 6 foot tall, BC mounted giant sausage. He developed it to be a hands-free system for people with their hands full of camera gear. Inflate your BC, pull the ripcord, and it's up there. At the time, I decided a six foot sausage was overkill, and it was a bit pricey too. Now, the advantage of that giant, that is permanently errect as long as your BC is inflated, appears priceless. You would be visible at a much longer range to search vessels and planes, plus, how long could you hold up that hand-held version we all carry? Think of the boat that is looking for you, that is just out of your sight. I'm not sure if that sausage can be retrofitted to my Zeagle Ranger BC, but I intend to have one before my next trip into similar waters.
I still hope my good friend is found. My hat is off to all the family members of both Dan and Danielle who have posted to this list, you have handled this extremely well, and have my deepest sympathy.
Tom Reese[/QUOTE]
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