Dangerous Crossing

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Once again, Mau saw the bounce dive behavior for years and said or did nothing. Now we have another dive accident that does directly involve Mau and there are a whole lot of red flags. Just my observations......YMMV

When you overreach and hang the accident long after Mau was gone, you weaken what you are saying. One could argue Mau was SO good at safety they never had a bounce dive accident while he was there, if, in fact, that was occurring. We are talking about a boat sinking. It would appear that the only issues are:

1. Was it bad judgement to use that size of boat? Some people with knowledge say yes; others have said it is not that uncommon.
2. What was the structural situation on the boat? If there was a repair or covering of a view window, who did it and how was it done? Did Mau get it that way and assume it was ok. Do you disassemble a used car to make sure there are no hidden defects? Maybe it was done by a boat repair shop and they said it was ok?

I think there are far too many questions for us to pass judgement intelligently. Adding less related, tangential junk doesn't answer the underlying questions.
 
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MMM said:
An interesting thought actually and one not touched on so far. Many of my friends and countrymen/women are saying "no thanks" to Mexico because they fear being beheaded, beaten, shot, kidnapped, or screwed over by the authorities. Extensively covered in the media. So what am I going to tell them when they learn that the boats are unsafe too? I'll NEVER get them back down here!

If this shortens the TSA and Customs lines, when I head south :D

On another note DD is the king of Thread Hijacking bar none, careful Don, we might invade Texas:D

Pardon me, I need to twist one up :cool2:
 
On another note DD is the king of Thread Hijacking bar none, careful Don, we might invade Texas:D

Pardon me, I need to twist one up :cool2:


Just don't mess with DD's birthday thread. Man I heard about that for months!!!
 
1. Was it bad judgement to use that size of boat? Some people with knowledge say yes; others have said it is not that uncommon.

I think it's done all the time. I was offered a trip across the channel by an Aldora dive master one morning upon pickup at our resorts dock about 1/2 way through our dive week. I have no idea how serous the offer was or if it would have involved going to get a different boat other than the small one we were on at the time. The bull shark dive was brought up jokingly by another diver, the DM quickly offered, "yes, lets' go!" and more of us quickly said, "no way" all was in a humorous setting and we quickly moved on to discussing another dive location.

But I'm sure it's done all the time, from both directions, not just from Cozumel, but from Playa and Cancun ops coming over to Cozumel, as well as deep sea fishing trips from both sides. My whole point about it is to realize the seriousness of the situation and make your own judgements. But at least understand you might be involving yourself in a 'trust me' situation and not realize it.


2. What was the structural situation on the boat? If there was a repair or covering of a view window, who did it and how was it done? Did Mau get it that way and assume it was ok. Do you disassemble a used car to make sure there are no hidden defects? Maybe it was done by a boat repair shop and they said it was ok?

I suspect what this is going to come down to, and that is based on the assumption there was some sort of modification to this boats hull, is that its going to come down to the legalities of inspections and timing. See this :

Trying to hide cases of shipwreck in Cozumel

COZUMEL, Q. Roo. - Company operates out of diving associations established on the island and without a physical.



Julian Miranda / SIPSE


On average a vessel is reviewed every six months,
The Port has six inspectors to review the 600 vessels of tourist services in seven springs.
This can take up to six months to recheck a boat and opens the door for tourism service providers do not comply with the rules and operate on an irregular basis without being detected.
reports by staff of the Harbor Master, none have said that the boat was glass background

The case file, whose number was not disclosed and held by the Port Authority, said that the boat did not have glass bottoms.

The translation is hard to fully comprehend, but it seems to me that they are saying the boat's records according to it's last inspection indicated it didn't have a glass bottom. Somewhere along the way the boat either had one put in and then taken out and had never been inspected again, either time.

So the question could be about timing, and how important are these inspections? Can a boat operate legally off it's last inspection no matter how long it takes the harbor crews to finally do the next one, or do you expire after 6 months and you can't operate until you have another? It appears (and this is just guessing) that the boat had an inspection at some point, but hasn't had a recent one, and some of this work on it took place in-between, both the initial glass bottom install and the latter modification/removal. Is it illegal to operate or take guests out on the water without a current inspection? Does the last one cover you till the harbor crew finally gets around to doing another? Does major hull modifications require a re-inspection?

A lot of questions, the answers to could point to negligence as WSOPFAN adamantly wants to declare, or possibly nothing actually illegal, just the results of a lax inspection system and maybe some poor judgement upon the boat owner????
 
I suspect what this is going to come down to, and that is based on the assumption there was some sort of modification to this boats hull, is that its going to come down to the legalities of inspections and timing.

The translation is hard to fully comprehend, but it seems to me that they are saying the boat's records according to it's last inspection indicated it didn't have a glass bottom. Somewhere along the way the boat either had one put in and then taken out and had never been inspected again, either time.
??

Or another possibility: we are talking about 2 different boats. One, the old Living Underwater, which never had a glass bottom, and another boat which did. Which Inspections may or may not have revealed.
 
I suspect what this is going to come down to, and that is based on the assumption there was some sort of modification to this boats hull, is that its going to come down to the legalities of inspections and timing. The translation is hard to fully comprehend, but it seems to me that they are saying the boat's records according to it's last inspection indicated it didn't have a glass bottom. Somewhere along the way the boat either had one put in and then taken out and had never been inspected again, either time.

So the question could be about timing, and how important are these inspections?

I might be interesting to see if the last boat inspected was the boat that was used that day. The name AND MX registration number were on a different hull as late as last summer. It would appear from Dave's post that perhaps instead of any legal transfer, someone painted the old boat's name and registration on the current boat. If that is the case, the last inspection of the boat may not reference a glass bottom, because it was a DIFFERENT boat that got inspected back then?
 
Mike,

There is something else to consider, Maybe the Port Captain is referring to a boat listed that isn't actually this boat. In other words hokey paperwork........or that he was referencing a different boat registered to Mau. Maybe somebody on the island will explain the paperwork issue once they get to the bottom of it.
 
Well, was hoping to not have to respond, but as someone on the boat in question that sank, you all need facts, fine, here are the facts. 1st let me say, I met many of you in the past, I have more dives in cozumel than likely any of you, and am an intelligent person who tries NOT to risk my life needlessly. So, here goes:

This boat was loaded with 8 divers, headed in calm waters with a good weather forecast to the mainland to see dive the "other side". Have done this crossing many times in the past with no trepidation. We came into rough waters, nothing we have not seen in the past. Still not really sure what happened, but suddenly we went down in the stern and took in a huge wave and honestly that was it. Someone tried to bale, we had seconds, kevin hollered to grab anything that floats and the boat sank by the stern in almost the middle of the channel. I could not lift my tank as we were perpendicular to the water, so grabbed my dry box and bag hoping to float on them

The boat went down , bobbing with about 2 feet of the bow above water for about 8 min. Kevin disappeared, free dived down , put on MY tank and proceded to inflate all bcd's less one and tanks and wetsuits and whatever he could find. He watched the boat sink, and only shared with us later that the bottom was way, way beyond his site line. So we geared up with wetsuits, tanks, bcd's. Held onto the fuel tank (what else do you do with it?? don't want another boat to hit it, ), had water in the cooler (also and excellent flotation device) and waited. FOrtunately, I had my mex cell phone in my dry box and managed to call the boat's owner who clearly understood and stated "Kathy, I am sending help, I promise"

The next 4 1/2 hours are very personal to all of us. Unless you've been in this situation, you have NO idea!!!! Planes, helicopters were few and far between and just out of site line, no one's fault, that's how it goes. We survived by singing, dancing and kicking/finning constantly but never to the point of exhaustion!! I am incredibly proud of the whole group (1/2 mexican 1/2 canadian), and especially of my buddy Kevin for really saving the day.

Yes, we were finally rescued by the ICE yacht, docked in coz for the past 4 weeks, trained in search and rescue. We owe our lives both the the ICE crew and the mexican navy/marines. Also our personal friends who sent out boats, got in planes and searched!! We are all OK and alive because of their efforts.

We were picked up between puerta marema (ithink that's how it's spelled) and cancun, with a current of 3 knots, we were just over an hour from open ocean!!!

Those are the facts. With respect to the comments about who you would not want to be in a boat with that sinks YOU HAVE NO IDEA!! I sang songs, (gilligan's island, Don't stop believing, I will survive) told jokes etc etc to calm both myself and those around me. We supported each other and are alive because we never, never panicked.

THe lessons I learned from this are: I'm getting a personal gps, always have a strobe, and sausages are useless in the open water. BUt more important, I recognize that I was never really in danger, I placed the call that alerted others of our situation, and they would NEVER have stopped looking for us. The people in cozumel are beautiful!! We (kevin and I ) have been called the true king and queen of carnaval!! People , whatever their walk in life, banded together with whatever resources they had and saved us!! They are the true heros!!

So, these are the facts, they are true, I was there. I cannot bear to even read scubaboard anymore, people spouting off what they have no knowledge of, hurting people with no conscience at all.

That's it. Please think twice (or three times) how your negative comments hurt both the industry, mexico and those of us who are dealing with the incredible emotions of whaat we have survived.
 
Well, was hoping to not have to respond, but as someone on the boat in question that sank, you all need facts, fine, here are the facts. 1st let me say, I met many of you in the past, I have more dives in cozumel than likely any of you, and am an intelligent person who tries NOT to risk my life needlessly. So, here goes:

This boat was loaded with 8 divers, headed in calm waters with a good weather forecast to the mainland to see dive the "other side". Have done this crossing many times in the past with no trepidation. We came into rough waters, nothing we have not seen in the past. Still not really sure what happened, but suddenly we went down in the stern and took in a huge wave and honestly that was it. Someone tried to bale, we had seconds, kevin hollered to grab anything that floats and the boat sank by the stern in almost the middle of the channel. I could not lift my tank as we were perpendicular to the water, so grabbed my dry box and bag hoping to float on them

The boat went down , bobbing with about 2 feet of the bow above water for about 8 min. Kevin disappeared, free dived down , put on MY tank and proceded to inflate all bcd's less one and tanks and wetsuits and whatever he could find. He watched the boat sink, and only shared with us later that the bottom was way, way beyond his site line. So we geared up with wetsuits, tanks, bcd's. Held onto the fuel tank (what else do you do with it?? don't want another boat to hit it, ), had water in the cooler (also and excellent flotation device) and waited. FOrtunately, I had my mex cell phone in my dry box and managed to call the boat's owner who clearly understood and stated "Kathy, I am sending help, I promise"

The next 4 1/2 hours are very personal to all of us. Unless you've been in this situation, you have NO idea!!!! Planes, helicopters were few and far between and just out of site line, no one's fault, that's how it goes. We survived by singing, dancing and kicking/finning constantly but never to the point of exhaustion!! I am incredibly proud of the whole group (1/2 mexican 1/2 canadian), and especially of my buddy Kevin for really saving the day.

Yes, we were finally rescued by the ICE yacht, docked in coz for the past 4 weeks, trained in search and rescue. We owe our lives both the the ICE crew and the mexican navy/marines. Also our personal friends who sent out boats, got in planes and searched!! We are all OK and alive because of their efforts.

We were picked up between puerta marema (ithink that's how it's spelled) and cancun, with a current of 3 knots, we were just over an hour from open ocean!!!

Those are the facts. With respect to the comments about who you would not want to be in a boat with that sinks YOU HAVE NO IDEA!! I sang songs, (gilligan's island, Don't stop believing, I will survive) told jokes etc etc to calm both myself and those around me. We supported each other and are alive because we never, never panicked.

THe lessons I learned from this are: I'm getting a personal gps, always have a strobe, and sausages are useless in the open water. BUt more important, I recognize that I was never really in danger, I placed the call that alerted others of our situation, and they would NEVER have stopped looking for us. The people in cozumel are beautiful!! We (kevin and I ) have been called the true king and queen of carnaval!! People , whatever their walk in life, banded together with whatever resources they had and saved us!! They are the true heros!!

So, these are the facts, they are true, I was there. I cannot bear to even read scubaboard anymore, people spouting off what they have no knowledge of, hurting people with no conscience at all.

That's it. Please think twice (or three times) how your negative comments hurt both the industry, mexico and those of us who are dealing with the incredible emotions of whaat we have survived.

Kathy, Thank you!!! :clapping:

You words SCREAM what you aren't saying -- of courage, of comradeship, as you all faced for four hours an uncertain ending. I love hearing that everyone came together to support each other!

I'd love to buy you a margarita if you are around Coz after Easter! :cool3:
 
Thank you for sharing. Wow ! What a story. Glad you are all alive.
 
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