Dangerous divers, redux

[Marie13]

I’d have given the DM a blistering earful.

 

[Zef]

I’d have given the DM a blistering earful.

Not sure a "blistering earful" is warranted but I would certainly make my concerns known that the buddy situation or lack thereof was unsafe. I know that there are plenty of dive operations that guide divers like shepherding sheep, I don't care for these type of dive scenarios but often new divers in unfamiliar waters will just follow the "expert" at the head of the group....this seems to be one of the norms throughout the industry regardless of my thoughts that it is not the safest approach.

But then again, how much of the story is hyperbole? The dive master was evidently aware of the struggle with the fins. Was the DM doing air pressure checks on this diver, how about the rest of the group? Was there another experienced diver playing tail end charlie to keep the group together and help handle potential issues? When the diver ran low on air did he ascend and return to the boat alone or did someone accompany him? Since the OP ran low on air soon after the diver in question and was the 2nd person back on the boat then one could legitimately ask "how come?", and who accompanied him back to the surface/boat?

OP, now you see, these are nuances that would help clarify and relate what really was going on.

It is super easy to criticize a fellow diver, and that clouds the lens through which we as individuals focus on the situation and inhibits our ability to glean something that could make us more competent, capable, and truly confident divers.

In my mind, every dive is a learning experience.

-Z

 

[uncfnp]

I remember my first back roll entry. It was my 400+ something dive. My fin came off and my mask flooded.

I think if I wanted to ask if there was anything I could do to help I would have started the conversation by asking about his “vintage” gear. I have an interest in diy and vintage stuff.

 

[Marie13]

If you’re buddied up the dive op (or if they appoint a 3rd for your buddy pair), can you just tell the DM to go pound sand if they attempt to pair you up with someone who clearly has issues?

 

[chillyinCanada]

Is that how you were treated at the beginning Marie? Were people berating dive guides because you were a new diver, not of their calibre?

 

[Snoweman]

How can anyone evaluate that for you without knowing what you intended on saying?

Just because the guy did not posses the tranquility underwater that you believe you posses doesn't automatically make him an unsafe diver. I am sure the other folks in the pool with me the other night would have thought I had little skill as I was working out my buoyancy, weighting, and spatial awareness in the drysuit I recently purchased. Perhaps this guy was wearing a thicker wetsuit than he was used to and his weighting was off, perhaps he had not dived in 10 years and that was his refresher.

Perhaps more important than confronting this diver, you should confront the DM/operation about why they did not specifically pair the guy up with someone.

What were you doing to help make the situation better other than scoping out his equipment and watching him struggle with an eye of criticism?



So what are the nuances that you are referring to?

-Z

The swimming activity of the arms is dangerous to anyone within arms reach and not knowing he is there. A person moving like that can rip a regulator out of another diver's mouth. It's bad enough with good divers bumping into one another, but it is my opinion that he would be more likely to kick off a mask with his sudden, jerky movements.

For the nuance, the BCD is one example. I don't know enough about that model/brand BCD, but I would be very nervous about releasing a CO2 cartridge into a BCD at depth. Lord help him if it got snagged and pulled while he was going through a swim through.

 

[northernone]

I am sure this has been done to death, but this post has a nuance or two.

Most of us on the boat had dived together at least one or two times before. But..., there was a new guy. His gear looked older, so you might think he knew what he was doing. In fact, most looked downright vintage. His reg was a Poseidon CyKlon, which he claimed was recently serviced. His BCD appeared to be a SeaTec Manta, with the CO2 canister attached. I don't know what his fins were, but they appeared newish.

Almost as soon as we left the boat, he was in trouble. He lost a fin during descent. I am almost certain that his backstrap spring connectors require an "insert and twist" technique to keep them in place. I think he just forced it into place. Once at depth, his arms were all over the place. There was no predicting how he would move. There were erratic breast strokes, combined with fluttering and just spastic movements. He had two redeeming qualities. The first was that he blew through his air quickly, and let us enjoy about 25% - 35% of the dive. His other quality was also a curse. Since he was not with anyone, he stuck by us. We didn't want him around us, but he was smart enough to know that he shouldn't be alone.

It would have bothered me a little bit, but we had a young diver with us that we were quite protective of. Watching this guy was a learning experience for the young diver, most of all. But, for me, I have to wonder if I should have said something during the SI. He was up first. I was up second, but not a lot of time to make comments in private. The dad of the 13 year old didn't provide any criticism, but I told the youngster to stay away from him on the next dive. The 13 year old already knew what I was talking about, and stayed away.

So..., should I have instantly said something when I got on deck when we were alone?? Should I have relied on the dive master to say something? What do you do when you encounter a diving spaz?

I truely hope I am misunderstanding your intent and tone:

Regardless, in the water as a fellow diver I do my best to keep my eye on other divers as best I can, if someone is needing more assistance than I can provide, I try to get them to another person better able to help.

We all have differing strengths and weaknesses diving, it's enjoyable seeing how others deal with them.

Cameron

 

[Marie13]

Is that how you were treated at the beginning Marie? Were people berating dive guides because you were a new diver, not of their calibre?

No dive guides on Great Lakes boats. The only time I’ve seen a DM in the water is to pair up with a single diver. I was very fortunate in patient dive buddies last year.

 

[Snoweman]

in my limited experience i have dived with people better than me and with people i would deem to be at a lower level experience wise (i don't think worse than me is necessarily accurate). i've seen divers do things that i would deem not correct or spaff through air like its going out of fashion and i am sure that on other occasions i have been the first to lose air or do things that others think to be novice behavior. we all grow and learn at different rates

as for having said anything to him i prefer to only offer advice if its asked for. if someone seeks me out for advise i am happy to offer anything i can but i wont go up to someone and tell them they should do this or do that. i would feel embarrassed if someone did that to me and i wouldn't want to do that to someone else

at the end of the day its a hobby and if he is enjoying himself and isn't a danger to anyone then leave him be. and you cant judge someone on their gear, i once dived with a group of firemen who all came down with their own equipment that was well worn and they had their own tanks (something i thought only pros would do at the time) and they had 15l to my 12l and i was intimidated and scared i would ruin the dive for them because i would be out of air first. turns out they had buoyancy issues and they ran out of air long before i did. i've seen people with brand new gear who have dived little and have better buoyancy and air consumption than me.

if anything i think you maybe being a little harsh on the man. as was said above, maybe he was having weighting issues or a new suit that they weren't used to. or maybe just having a bad day. we all have those

Don't get me wrong. I was a prime example of "amateur hour" during this trip, too. The difference was that I was only a danger to myself in my gaffs, and not endangering others.

 

[Snoweman]

I truely hope I am misunderstanding your intent and tone:

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Regardless, in the water as a fellow diver I do my best to keep my eye on other divers as best I can, if someone is needing more assistance than I can provide, I try to get them to another person better able to help.

We all have differing strengths and weaknesses diving, it's enjoyable seeing how others deal with them.

Cameron

"an incompetent or uncoordinated person" - Yup. That described him underwater. I don't mind keeping an eye on him, and I did. The dive master did, as well. Neither one of understood some of his actions at the safety stop, other than it appeared he couldn't maintain his 10 - 20 foot range (buoyancy control). I meant to ask him what was going on, but I forgot about it when I surfaced 20 minutes later. I think the DM did, too.

What I didn't like was him being close to a 13 year old diver with less than 20 dives under her belt. I would have been satisfied had he could have maintained a distance of ten feet or a little more. He could not.