Dangerous psychology- Diving beyond one's training

[tstormdiver]

But do you really believe that training is the only way to gain knowledge?

For levels above recreational diving (& there are some courses in recreational diving in which it is still not a bad idea),..... yes.

I agree that there are some recreational courses that may not be neccesary. But when you are starting to get into levels where going to the surface is not an option, thorough, proper training is a must.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

For levels above recreational diving (& there are some courses in recreational diving in which it is still not a bad idea),..... yes.

I agree that there are some recreational courses that may not be neccesary. But when you are starting to get into levels where going to the surface is not an option, thorough, proper training is a must.

You must think it a miracle that anyone in NY/NJ survived the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s.

 

[Superlyte27]

For levels above recreational diving (& there are some courses in recreational diving in which it is still not a bad idea),..... yes.

I agree that there are some recreational courses that may not be neccesary. But when you are starting to get into levels where going to the surface is not an option, thorough, proper training is a must.

Actually, there were people who learned without formal training. And we learned by their mistakes.... er I mean their deaths. The pioneers in cave diving for example didn't know about diving thirds, redundant gear, multiple lights. Some lived, some died. As more people died, Sheck started looking at WHY they died. And put together the 5 rules that most of us follow today. But what we do today was learned by seeing what NOT to do.

 

[tstormdiver]

You must think it a miracle that anyone in NY/NJ survived the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s.

I will say this again, They were pioneers, in general, we are not. How many of them did not survive? That unfortunately is where the skills & procedures we follow were deveolped. Why repeat those same mistakes trying to learn it on one's own, when they have already been made & many times, the price paid? Why reinvent the wheel when it is right in front of you?

---------- Post added November 21st, 2012 at 09:28 PM ----------

Actually, there were people who learned without formal training. And we learned by their mistakes.... er I mean their deaths. The pioneers in cave diving for example didn't know about diving thirds, redundant gear, multiple lights. Some lived, some died. As more people died, Sheck started looking at WHY they died. And put together the 5 rules that most of us follow today. But what we do today was learned by seeing what NOT to do.

I agree 100%. See my post below.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Wait... anyone who trained informally was a pioneer? Sweet. When, pray tell, did the pioneering era end and the new 'these c-cards or wrong' era begin?

 

[redacted]

For levels above recreational diving (& there are some courses in recreational diving in which it is still not a bad idea),..... yes.

I agree that there are some recreational courses that may not be neccesary. But when you are starting to get into levels where going to the surface is not an option, thorough, proper training is a must.

I have never considered going beyond recreational diving but I don't understand why it is simply not possible to go where no diver has ever gone before without formal training. Is the problem that the knowledge required for more advanced diving has not been recorded anywhere?

I am not saying that training is a bad idea. Hopefully, it is the fastest way to gain the required knowledge. If available documentation is incomplete or lacking, it may also be the best way to insure there are no gaps in the required knowledge. But, the only way!!! I suspect not.

 

[tstormdiver]

Wait... anyone who trained informally was a pioneer? Sweet. When, pray tell, did the pioneering era end and the new 'these c-cards or wrong' era begin?

No,... I did not say that. Stop putting meanings into my words where it is not there. Those in the earlier days that did not have formal training because there was not that type of diving at that time were pioneers. I think you are intellegent enough to guess that the procedures developed over time through the near misses, deaths & injuies. Through that analysis, the procedures we use today are formed. That conclusion is not rocket science,... actually it is common knowledge.

 

[BDSC]

Speaking for myself, I've never been one who believes you need to take courses to do basic recreational dives. Of course I do believe it is wise to take an initial OW course to learn about the basics of diving and and get a foundation with an instructor. But beyond that, I never have seen a need to do more courses unless you just have to have the card to get the benefit like Nitrox. Diving isn't that hard to learn. In fact I think it's quite easy and just a little common sense can go a long way.

 

[tstormdiver]

I have never considered going beyond recreational diving but I don't understand why it is simply not possible to go where no diver has ever gone before without formal training. Is the problem that the knowledge required for more advanced diving has not been recorded anywhere?

There are books & of course the instructor passing down his knowledge & skills to his students, but they need to be hand in hand to compliment each other.

I am not saying that training is a bad idea. Hopefully, it is the fastest way to gain the required knowledge. If available

documentation is incomplete or lacking, it may also be the best way to insure there are no gaps in the required knowledge. But, the only way!!! I suspect not.

To do it in the safest manner, I would disagree. If one wanted to develop a type of diving that is not in existance, wouldn't it behoove that diver to get as much training up to that point plus very long study & analysis of the dive before even preparing to attempt the dive? Couple that with a full or near full knowledge of the risks of the dive to be undertaken, which is gathered from training & the analysis portion of the preparation.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

For levels above recreational diving (& there are some courses in recreational diving in which it is still not a bad idea),..... yes.

I agree that there are some recreational courses that may not be neccesary. But when you are starting to get into levels where going to the surface is not an option, thorough, proper training is a must.

I disagree, if you mean "proper training" to represent certification(s). A diver can safely learn decompression procedures and engage in the activity in a responsible manner if they study some books or read on the internet and have someone else show them the ropes. I myself have never had any technical training and I don't feel that some training in it would make much difference for the "light deco" type of dives that I do sometimes. Actually, I don't really remember anyone showing me how to do it, I just progressed into it... most always while solo.

I've seen a lot of divers who do have "the proper training" for this type of diving and they can be scary...Few people have the patience and desire to progress slowly, research information and have the opportunity to dive with qualified divers who will teach them how to do it..especially when they know that the diver will be diving way past their certification level, but it is possible.

I had a buddy who had somewhat convinced himself that he was going to try to break the world, deep air record. He was doing many solo, single tank (with pony bottle) dives to around 340 feet and claimed to have acclimated well to it. What motivates somebody like that? It took a long time for me to convince him that pursuit of this goal was not worthy of his efforts (let alone the danger).