Dealing with over-enthusiastic parents and spectators - The Parent's Perspective

[fjpatrum]

Note the original post I was responding to was the "I act as a mediator/advocate to resolve the issue". That doesn't sound like "trying to understand the subject", but a parent interjecting in an argument to decide if the child or instructor is correct. That's where I say "shut the hell up and listen, the instructor is correct".

I'll agree with that sentiment, generally speaking. I read your statement as a blanket "instructors are right" comment.

 

[vkalia]

Since teachers and instructors are not always correct, when there is a disagreement, I get involved.

I can understand disagreements between, say, a DMT and an instructor. But what possible disagreement can there be between an OW student and an instructor? The OW student knows nothing about diving - they have no basis for disagreeing.

If you have picked the right instructor, let them do their job. If you want to add something, do so later - even if it is to reinforce what the instructor is saying.

I notice that you have no dives listed in your profile. Is there a reason for that? :mooner:

I agree with Bossman. And I have a few listed dives. Is that better?

 

[tstormdiver]

As an instructor, I rarely have a problem with parents/ SO's attending the class or pool sessions. The only issue I've ever had at this point is the parent/ SO trying to interfere when it comes to equipment assembly. They naturally want to step in & "help" & then wind up trying to do it for the student. When this occurs, I take the parent/ SO out of the room & privately ask them to step back, explaining that " I know you're just trying to help, but(insert name here) needs to be able to do this skill on their own. It is a requirement for them to pass the course. Give them a chance, they'll get it". At that point the parent/SO ususally stay in the background & encourage, but not interfere. Sometime letting the student put the BC on wrong or the regulator backwards, helps them to learn from their mistakes. When they do, I gently take them aside & demonstrate the skill again & let them follow step by step with me. I have never had a Parent/ SO interfere in the water. If they did I would mostlikely do generally the same method & explain to them that their staying out of the way is for their loved one's safety. If the parent/ SO sees me doing something potentially dangerous (not that I would EVER do so intentionally or knowingly), but I'm human, I can make mistakes like anyone else. I would expect them to address it with me; preferablly in private, but if it is an imeadiate danger then to do so on the spot. Perhaps it may just be a misunderstanding or misinterpritation. I am not ashamed to explain what I am doing & why I am doing it. So far this approach has worked marvelously. I am not going to say it will work 100% of the time, but I will do my best to teach my student well, make them a safe , confident & comfortable diver. If a parent/ SO wants to be there & watch,... I have no problems. The only problem comes from when they want to interfere.

 

[Bossman]

You see, Bossman, I never wrote just who or what I advocated for. I believe you assumed what you wanted to assume, for whatever reasons, and tried to start a flame.

Oh, now I understand. You meant that you act as the coaches/instructors advocate.

I must have misinterpreted your original post.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I require at least one parent be present for all pool and classroom sessions. I want there to be no question as to what is required, what has or will be covered, and the methods I use. With SO's I do not tolerate any interference from the other party.

 

[fjpatrum]

I can understand disagreements between, say, a DMT and an instructor. But what possible disagreement can there be between an OW student and an instructor? The OW student knows nothing about diving - they have no basis for disagreeing.

If you have picked the right instructor, let them do their job. If you want to add something, do so later - even if it is to reinforce what the instructor is saying.



I agree with Bossman. And I have a few listed dives. Is that better?

So a physicist that understands boyle's law or charle's law clearly can't have a discussion about it with the instructor even if the instructor isn't explaining it well/properly?

I doubt there are many teenage physicists but strange things happen. Discussion or disagreement with a diving instructor doesn't have to be all about diving. More importantly, plenty of us read a lot before we start classes. The statement also holds true of any diving instructor, whether it's OW, AOW, Cave, Rescue or anything else. The assumption that the student, even an OW student "knows nothing about diving" is simply not accurate in all cases. Perhaps in most, but far from all. By the time I started my OW class I had already read 2 books about diving and dive training and all the course material. I clearly understood the basics of diving and diving physics and could quite easily have had lengthy discussions about it with just about anyone.

There's always basis for disagreeing when someone is teaching in a manner that doesn't allow you, as a student, to learn the required information. Certainly there are ways that are more and less disruptive to the classroom to air those disagreements, but to say they aren't possible or aren't valid is simply incorrect.

 

[vkalia]

So a physicist that understands boyle's law or charle's law clearly can't have a discussion about it with the instructor even if the instructor isn't explaining it well/properly?

No. Not during a class. If you think the instructor doesnt know what s/he is doing, get a different instructor or do some additional teaching to your child later. Otherwise, let him or her teach and dont stick your nose in correcting them on this and that.

The assumption that the student, even an OW student "knows nothing about diving" is simply not accurate in all cases. Perhaps in most, but far from all. By the time I started my OW class I had already read 2 books about diving and dive training and all the course material. I clearly understood the basics of diving and diving physics and could quite easily have had lengthy discussions about it with just about anyone.

Oh please. You are stretching just to try to make a point. Reading a few books on diving gives you the knowledge and ability to disagree and correct the instructor? Yeesh.

If I am teaching a course, I am responsible for the student's safety - I take it very seriously and I wouldnt be too thrilled if someone with a handful of dives decides he knows more than me b/c he's read a few books. In my experience, the "certified diver" family member is far more likely to be wrong than the instructor.

Now this is where you bring in the strawman argument of a completely incompetent instructor who would have been a safety hazard were it not for your intervention.

There's always basis for disagreeing when someone is teaching in a manner that doesn't allow you, as a student, to learn the required information. Certainly there are ways that are more and less disruptive to the classroom to air those disagreements, but to say they aren't possible or aren't valid is simply incorrect.

As I said - if you want to add to the content, do so outside the course. Dont interrupt and disrupt the class. You (I mean this generally, not specifically you) are FAR more likely to be mistaken than the instructor, assuming that s/he is competent.

I've seen it before. For example, when I teach, I have a progression in how I provide information - sometimes, I provide only the basic facts and flesh it out later. I have certain points where I let students make mistakes first and try to self-correct before I step in. I have had well-meaning friends and family jump the gun, and start providing too much information, overloading the student - or confusing them with conflicting information, etc. This throws off my teaching progression and makes it worse for the students.

If you think the instructor is not teaching properly, get a new instructor. Otherwise, let them teach and fill in whatever you think is relevant later.

V.

 

[vkalia]

I require at least one parent be present for all pool and classroom sessions. I want there to be no question as to what is required, what has or will be covered, and the methods I use.

I generally prefer the kids to be without the parents - I have noticed that having the parents around sometimes puts additional pressure on the kids. And frankly, it is a lot easier without well-meaning people jumping in (as they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing).

I *do* ask the parents to discuss the course with the children and let me know if the child has understood everything and/or is not clear on anything - sometimes, kids dont want to admit to not knowing something in front of others.

And for the self-study portion, I encourage the parents to also watch the video and read the books, so they have an idea of what the kids are learning.

V.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Well under the old Y program it was a standard that had to be followed. I like it and have carried it over. And yes there are times when a parent can put added pressure on a student if they are allowed to. I have actually in front of parents told their kids to look at me, and only me, mom and dad do not exist here. This is what I want you to do and it has worked well. Parents can also be a source of support. They also usually know their kids pretty well and,unless I see actual stress on their faces,will allow a parent to ask the question I just asked in a different tone or manner that they have proved works with their kids. I do not permit debates with me. If you want to do that it happens after class, in private, and you buy the pizza!

I also make it clear from day one who the instructor is and at any time if that is forgotten I reserve the right to end the instruction.

 

[fisheater]

When my (then) two teenagers did a boat-based discover scuba "class" at Catalina Island, I sat away from them and the instructor, just smiling. Before their dive, I asked permission to take a few pictures. With the instructor's OK, I swam over, took a couple of pictures, waved and swam off.

My kids' attention and focus needed to be on the instructor, not me.