Death by Diving

[SC_Hoaty]

There is no conflict, they are talking about two different populations. If you wear a helmet you are less likely to die of a head injury, that is without question.

Yes, both studies show if you wear a helmet, you are less likely to die of a head injury. That point was confirmed by both studies, and was never in contention. Framing the argument around this point would be pointless, or a misdirection.

Given that both studies also examined total mortality, of the same base population, at different points in time, and came to differing conclusions about the impact of helmet laws (as opposed to helmet use) on the total mortality rate is curious.

 

[DCBC]

I have just two rhetorical questions (observations). The YMCA certification I went through in 1975 was FAR more strenuous than the PADI program I took in 1999. In fact, when I became certified at the age of 16 (and therefore much more fit), I found the swimming qualification to be non-trivial, even though I had every swimming skill award the YMCA offered at the time (through and including senior lifesaver). Are we really making sure people can swim before we make them swim with all this gear on? If you lose your fins, can you still make it back to the boat?

The swimming requirements of most diver certification organizations have been reduced in-light of the technologies available. In one instance, it has been eliminated altogether. Some agencies prohibit their instructors from changing the certification standards, while others encourage their instructors to increase them. So what is actually required by way of swimming is dependent upon the agency and often by the instructor delivering the training.

Perhaps it's because I live in a region that is known for it's cold ocean water, currents and the highest tidal exchange in the world, but I personally feel that a diver here requires good swimming ability. My minimum standard for OW certification is 400 meters (16 lengths) on the front (any style or styles of stroke) and another 200 meters (8 lengths) on their back. I couple this with a 25 meter underwater swim, deepwater weight belt recovery, 15 min drownproof and treadwater of 2 mins (hands only, legs crossed), 2 mins (legs only, palms out of the water) and 2 mins (hands and legs). I find that this is also an adequate evaluation for physical fitness for diving and in-water confidence.

 

[marinediva]

Been riding since I was a kid. Only used a helmet in my teenage years when it became law.
And only then an open face.

Then I was on a ride with a number of people and I watched as my friend hit an oil patch and went head first down a highway for a good 50m. Her full face helmet was a mess, her face cut up. If she had been wearing an open face, she would have been unrecognisable and would have required a face reconstruction.

The next day I purchased an expensive full face.

 

[caseybird]

I'll believe the helmet BS when I see riders wearing blaze orange rather than black leather or denim. Situational awareness cuts both ways.

:
Without a helmet, I can hear and see my opponents much better, and by traveling faster than everyone else I never have to worry about what's behind me. Also, if you really look at the statistics, helmet use increases vertebra trauma (paralysis) because when the whiplash thing happens there is all that extra weight.

:

You're exceeding the flow of traffic to protect your rear? Don't whine when you're cut off by an 18 wheeler.

Two words: "organ donor". Thanks in advance.

 

[Jax]

Hey, helmet guys,

Should we ask a halpful mod to move the helmet discussion to the Surface Interval? Just a thought . . .

:focus:

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hey, helmet guys,

Should we ask a halpful mod to move the helmet discussion to the Surface Interval? Just a thought . . .

:focus:

Either that or change the thread title to "Death by Driving" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jax]

Either that or change the thread title to "Death by Driving" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Death by Stupidity?

 

[DeusVerto]

(quoted text edited for brevity) ...My minimum standard for OW certification is 400 meters (16 lengths) on the front (any style or styles of stroke) and another 200 meters (8 lengths) on their back. I couple this with a 25 meter underwater swim, deepwater weight belt recovery, 15 min drownproof and treadwater of 2 mins (hands only, legs crossed), 2 mins (legs only, palms out of the water) and 2 mins (hands and legs)...

This sounds very much like the original YMCA quals. I am not sure I could accomplish all of this anymore in one session. Spread out over a week, maybe.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I'll believe the helmet BS when I see riders wearing blaze orange rather than black leather or denim. Situational awareness cuts both ways.
.

Indeed it does, but it is immaterial to the question of if not having a helmet increases the ability of the rider to be aware of impending dangers sooner and thus increase their ability to avoid them altogether (or at least minimize their impact).

When I rode, I doubled up the lights on the back of the bike, wore a blaze orange riding vest (a military requirement on post, and since I was almost alway going to or from post, it was just something I always wore, even around town). And yet I went down 3 times, none of which were my fault. I faced a drunk crossing into my lane once, an oblivious twit merging into my lane forcing me into a median barrier in a construction zone, and an old lady pulling out in front of me and stopping in the middle of the road.

In none of those cases do I believe I would have been aware of the danger more readily without a helmet. Two were directly in front of me, and I knew the guy on the side was coming over, but I couldn't speed past him due to traffic/construction and I did brake hard, but it wasn't sufficient to avoid impact (though it did significantly minimize injury).

But something that isn't considered in the hypothesis that the lack of a helmet increases SA is the question of if someone not wearing a helmet tends to drive more conservatively than someone who is not. If that is the case, then it is not the helmet that reduces situational awareness, but the awareness of the threat imposed by not wearing a helmet that matters.

I forget who mentioned it, but I heard someone suggest that the way to eliminate meaning auto accidents is to require all vehicles not have seat belts and have a razor sharp spike that sticks out of the steering wheel and points directly at the driver's heart. It is pretty well guaranteed that accidents would go down.

And this circles back to scuba in this way -- conservative diving increases with perception of increased risk. Does that mean instructors should scare students? Of course not. But we do have an obligation to inform students of the need for continual skill refinement and situational awareness with regards to all of the variables they can control.

There is no down side to continually emphasizing dive planning, adherence to the plan, and so on. The question is how many students will actually do those things?

 

[Dyno Bill]

The basic fact of life is that life can be dangerous. We as humans are subject to threat from outside the realm of our control. I have found that most things that I enjoy are inherently dangerous, as far as I am concerned when it's my time then so be it. I rode probably a quarter of a million miles on bikes, maybe 40,000 wearing a helmet and I'm still here. I quit riding when they passed the helmet laws here in Ca. It's not that I disliked the helmet, it's that the govn't decided to remove a freedom that I as an American enjoyed. The freedom of choice, my dad had that right, not some clown in a office far removed from my lifestyle. I have raced desert, rode motorcycles, played roller hockey in my forties, heck I was riding bucking horses at 50. I'm not afraid of dying but instead not being able to live my life as I see fit. I don't feel that humans need rule books and big brothers, we need to feel the excitement of living life as we see fit. If you are someone that feels better with boundaries then it's way cool that they are there but for those of us that turn left just because we can...... don't expect me to be good with a no left turn sign