Deaths at Stoney Cove

[irishsquid]

this is where the idea falls apart

I wasn't really expecting a realistic answer to that. It was more of an agreement with:

... Are you advocating that recreational divers remove their weight belts and hold them in their hands as a normal course of each dive?

I was wondering how a person could possibly know, "Hey, I think I'm gonna passout/become unconcious, so I better take my weight belt off and hold it so I can let go of it; if and when I do."

How about using your shears or a dive knife? On the belt, not the wrist.

Yeah, I figured that when I posted, but; left it in because some dive buddies that would possibly attempt helping, could/would struggle trying to pull the belt loose. Overall, I will agree that my poor attempt at facetiousness to show that fell rather short.

 

[citysparks]

I meant to envoke that perhaps where possible that if a diver has a problem, them perhaps we should be trainned to remove weight belts if the diver has no problem over the accent they can put there belts back on, yes a diver may envelope a konf fu grip, but perhaps they drop there weight system and end up in a chamber as apose to a morgue. I was not saying that this was the definative answer just that too many divers are found on the bottom with there weight systems intact, I only know that PADI tell there divers to dump weight belts as a last resort, and i belive that its time to change this, as there has been 8 deaths in the UK alone this year and its only May, how many more must there be before the situation changes and divers where possible make themselves possitivley bouyent.

 

[Solly]

I advocate the attachment of weight belts with explosive bolts...linked to detonate from a heart rate monitor..... no worries

I like this new approach :cool2:

I meant to envoke that perhaps where possible that if a diver has a problem, them perhaps we should be trainned to remove weight belts if the diver has no problem over the accent they can put there belts back on, yes a diver may envelope a konf fu grip, but perhaps they drop there weight system and end up in a chamber as apose to a morgue. I was not saying that this was the definative answer just that too many divers are found on the bottom with there weight systems intact, I only know that PADI tell there divers to dump weight belts as a last resort, and i belive that its time to change this, as there has been 8 deaths in the UK alone this year and its only May, how many more must there be before the situation changes and divers where possible make themselves possitivley bouyent.

If I know that I am about to faint or pass away do I need a training to do whatever it takes to keep my life like just ditching the weight belt or just keeping it in my hand to fall when I am gone?
Where is my buddy anyway when all this is happening?

I agree something is not in place, but I don't think it is related to something missing in the training but more on the personal reaction of what to do when something goes wrong.

 

[Garrobo]

Yep. That's a pretty wild suggestion.

 

[citysparks]

I like this new approach :cool2:



If I know that I am about to faint or pass away do I need a training to do whatever it takes to keep my life like just ditching the weight belt or just keeping it in my hand to fall when I am gone?
Where is my buddy anyway when all this is happening?

I agree something is not in place, but I don't think it is related to something missing in the training but more on the personal reaction of what to do when something goes wrong.

I trully hope that you are never in this situation to find out where your buddy is, I hope that at i remain as calm and collected as you are. I trust that you are satisfied with your trainning and you belive that you are perfectly safe!!!!!!

Good Luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Solly]

I hope no one would ever get into that situation not even trying to search for a buddy to assist him. No one is perfectly safe and training is not always everything, this is my point. A person's reaction to what is going around him, sensing that something is not correct either in his setup, the environment around him or even just in his mental/emotional status... Sensing something weird requires a reaction. So my point is that even if trainings do not set this point, if I feel I am going to faint or pass away and know it in advance I would certainly drop my weights and do an emergency ascent.

 

[DevonDiver]

I meant to envoke that perhaps where possible that if a diver has a problem, them perhaps we should be trainned to remove weight belts if the diver has no problem over the accent they can put there belts back on, yes a diver may envelope a konf fu grip, but perhaps they drop there weight system and end up in a chamber as apose to a morgue. I was not saying that this was the definative answer just that too many divers are found on the bottom with there weight systems intact, I only know that PADI tell there divers to dump weight belts as a last resort, and i belive that its time to change this, as there has been 8 deaths in the UK alone this year and its only May, how many more must there be before the situation changes and divers where possible make themselves possitivley bouyent.

If you've read the incident reports for fatalities in the UK (which I have) you would appreciate that they refer to the issues I made in a previous post.

Disabling medical emergencies (heart attack, stroke, lung injuries etc) and/or panic is what kills divers. No amount of training is going to help you drop the weight belt if you are not thinking, or if your body is not functioning.

Dropping a weight belt is an 'easy' skill. It doesn't take much practice to learn that. Very few students need to repeat and correct that skill in the confined or open water sections of an OW course.

However, doing that in the midst of a heart-attack or when clouded with panic is a different matter. Anyone can get ill on a dive...and everyone has a panic threshold.

That's why diving organizations 'recommend' maintaining medical fitness to dive (or abstaining from diving if not fit) and that people should dive within the limits of their training and experience.

Those two 'recommendations' are the ones frequently broken...and the underlying issues leading to fatalities in diving.

 

[ScubaSteve]

First and foremost, it is terrible that yet another diver has passed underwater.

Are you advocating that recreational divers remove their weight belts and hold them in their hands as a normal course of each dive?

That would mean holding weight in both hands to keep good and proper trim but it might make it difficult to perform other useful things like reg retrieval, mask clearing, gauge checking, inflator operation.....

To be serious for a second though, maybe we can call this plan B (or plan ZZZZZZZZ since it really was not well thought out) and come up with something better like what DevonDiver and others have said. Diving within your training and comfort limits is paramount to diver safety IMO.

 

[String]

I see another diver has died at the ill fated Stoney cove in Lestershire England(thats 25 now),

So thats 25 out of several hundred thousand peope spread over a few decades Hardly a statistic worth mentioning.

Why are so many divers being found at the bottom of open water conditions with there weight belts still in place.

Because dumping weights isnt always possible and often not in the slightest bit helpful.

Its about time that the trainning organisations took this on board, Teach people to remove and hold on to there weight belts if they black out or become unconcious then they drop the belt and will be positivley bouyent an will surface.

Surely you arent stupid enough to advocate people dive carrying their lead?! Have you any idea how uncomfortaboe that would be? How much it would affect trim? How easy it is to drop lare amounts of weight? You also appear to have no concept just how serious or fatal a polaris missile ascent from 35m to the surface can be either.

All you instructors out there remember that an embolisum Pnumathorax etc can be treated, ok the diver may never dive again but they will be alive,

Not always they cant. Neither can bends always be cured. And given that i cant see why youd advocate a ridiclously dangerous and impractical methd of diving given accident reports dont back up this as an issue in any way shape or form.

I feel that its time to push all the trainning agencys to change there attitude to divers loosing there lives. Lets act now before the authorities such as the HSE do.

Although HSE are idiotic, at times near criminally so not even they are retarded enough to recommnd carryin weight belts with all the massive risks that entails with no benefits what so ever from their own stats.

Your opinions are invited along with your suggestions on how can we improve the saftey of all of us who enjoy the underwater world, we just want it safer.

Commoin sense prevents most accidents. And the incident rate at stoney is vanishingly small. So small in fact as to be not worth considering.

 

[String]

I and i belive that its time to change this, as there has been 8 deaths in the UK alone this year and its only May, how many more must there be before the situation changes and divers where possible make themselves possitivley bouyent.

Out of those 8 deaths how many of those are attributed to failing to dump weights? I'llgive you a clue... Its a number less than 1. Yep - NONE.

Not one of the incidents you mention could have been prevented by dumping weights.

You also appear completely unaware just how hard carrying 30lb+ of lead in your hand is for any time and what it does to trim. You also seem unaware how an uncontrolled buoyant ascent can be fatal or at best permanently crippling from 35m or shallower as well. Its not a case of stick them in a chamber and cure them - buoyant ascents are dangerous and often fatal.