Deco in caves

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Deco in caves is different from open water. For example you do a wreckdive, the bottom is 60m, the top of the wreck 40. You can make an easy plan of 15 minutes 60m, then 10 minutes 45. This will give you a diveplan.

Then a cave. Complicated deco in caves is not part of all full cave courses. A full cave course is not a substitute for a decocourse. But some important points have to be told in this courses by every instructor, so when your experience grows you know what factors influences a diveplan in a cave, and how to make a good diveplan. The best caves for a course are shallow as it allows you a lot of bottomtime. A cave is dark, and overhead, so at 2m depth it looks the same as at 80m depth. But follow a course is a really good idea if you haven't done it yet.

I will explain some things:
Rule 1 is: if you can make the dive within the old famous NDL with a nitrox, take a nitrox instead of air. Make a cave dive never more complex than needed. Gasswitches are always more complicated than just stay on backgas with no obligatory stops needed. Obligatory stops on backgas are more complicated than no obligatory stops needed, so choose the right gas. (I don’t start a discussion about deco on backgas here).

Then: Know the profile of the cave (we don’t talk about exploration of unknown caves). A cave is a natural formed ‘thing’, so gives almost never an ideal profile. From most caves you can find maps in books or internet.

And: start with some easier dives in the cave. If possible make some shorter dives to know what you can expect. If not possible then be really conservative.
When not so experienced in doing dives in caves, be carefull with inflowing caves. The way out will always take more time then the way in. Start here with dives within NDL and extra gasreserves.

Next rule: Know your swimmingspeed. Flows can make your speed faster or slower. Easiest to calculate are caves with no flow or outflowing (then the way out is always faster than in, make a plan by using the speed you can get in, then the way out will give you more conservatism). Major restrictions a greater depths will increase your ‘bottomtime’ at depth. This can make you will reach your turnpressure/point earlier than expected. Don’t swim further, but turn. A next dive the cave is still there (and next year and next years), so don’t risk things. The swimmingspeed is needed to know how much time it will take to reach point ‘X’ in a cave.

I will give you some example now of a dive, it is never a substitute for a course. And doing more complex dives in a cave must grow with experience.
So if the cave has this profile, no flow: from entrance to length of 180m max depth 10m, then drops to 23m with length of 250m, then drops to 46m for 100m. You can now calculate the time needed to swim the length of 180+250+100m, to your turnpoint.
BUT you need to calculate the way back too. So without stops it is 2 times the 180+250+100m. If you swim with 10m/minute the divetime is shorter than you swim with 14m/minute. Most divers think they swim faster than they really swim. You must calculate your turnpressure of backgas, and if it is possible to reach the turnpoint within the turnpressurelimits, so calculate if you have enough gas for the dive. If you dive with 10m/minute it will take 53 minutes to reach your turnpoint at 530m from entrance.
Based on the maximum depth you can take a trimix, let’s say a standardgas 21/35. This profile will give you some obligatory decostops, so you must calculate the amount of gas needed to reach the first decostop. Let’s say that is 180+250+100 m for the way in and an extra 100+250m for the way out. The last 180m are on decogases. The profile of the last 180m will affects your stops too. If 150 out of the 180m is at 9m, you will have a long stop of 15minutes at 9m. But you will swim and not stop moving. If the cave is here 10m, then you swim at 10m. If the cave is 8m you have to decide to wait (costs gas), or swim at 8m as deco is no absolute science (and maybe you will have a computer that shows 'missed decostop', so buy a computer that calculates further and not give you the famous 505). And maybe you decide to take a non-DIR gas to swim the last 180m: ean80. There are more options, and it depends on how long a stop is and what is the rest of profile and is there good point in the cave to hold the stop, etc.
For this dive you need to have enough gas for deco, enough backgas, and reserves in case of a lost decogas or something. Etc. Then you have to think where you can drop your cylinders. You don’t take all gases with you like with a wreckdive. If you use a 100% and a 50% for deco you try to drop the 100% at 6m depth (MOD of the gas). And the 50% at 21m depth. As this is a dropoff, most likely your 50% will be dropped at 23m depth (so maybe think about another gas that can be used at 23m too to optimize deco-swimmingrate-divetime). On the way back you pickup the gases again. During the dive check if you are at 180m at the expected time, at 430m at the expected time, etc. And check if you have enough gas as you have calculated. This gives you possibilities for inwater updates.
If the cave has a restriction at 6m depth, then do the last stop at 7m and go up to surface slowly (as always adviced). Holding a stop in a restriction as there are other possiblities is really irritating if others want to pass, so only do it if no other options are there. Same with dropping cylinders. Choose a good position.
 
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Thank you friends for your posts! They make the issue clearer for me.

Germie
,
I really appreciate the time and effort you invested in writing such a thorough exposition! One sentence seemed enigmatic to me: "If you swim with 10m/minute the divetime is shorter than you swim with 14m/minute." Normally I would think, a higher speed would make the divetime shorter? Couldn't understand that. Nevertheless, The example was very helpful. Thanks again.
 
Thank you friends for your posts! They make the issue clearer for me.

Germie
,
I really appreciate the time and effort you invested in writing such a thorough exposition! One sentence seemed enigmatic to me: "If you swim with 10m/minute the divetime is shorter than you swim with 14m/minute." Normally I would think, a higher speed would make the divetime shorter? Couldn't understand that. Nevertheless, The example was very helpful. Thanks again.
Yes, I made a mistake in writing that, sorry, I see it now :banghead:. The divetime of a 530 m distance is 53minutes with 10m/minute and with 14m/minute it is about 38 minutes.
When you ask divers how fast they swim, most don't know or think they swim faster than in real time. When I do for example the navigation dive of an aow course I will ask them how long it will take to swim a 35m line and then we swim that line under water. The 1 minute they think is in real most times around 2.5 minute. I do same again with the more experienced courses. In caves I ask for example at what time did you reach the first T of the Resselcave? And with this information you can calculate your swimmingspeed as you know the distance from entrance to first T.
 
When I do for example the navigation dive of an aow course I will ask them how long it will take to swim a 35m line and then we swim that line under water. The 1 minute they think is in real most times around 2.5 minute.
That is interesting. Most of my AOW students do 30m (100 ft) in 1 minute or sometimes 1.5 minutes, sometimes 3/4 minutes. FYI, 30m in 1 minute is very close to one knot.
 
your students kick fast as hell..... 50ft/min for me. Like clockwork...

80fpm is people moving pretty quickly and whole not too terribly fast, is still faster than i care to go.
 
That is interesting. Most of my AOW students do 30m (100 ft) in 1 minute or sometimes 1.5 minutes, sometimes 3/4 minutes

Using a kick that one would use for normal swimming in a cave?
 
Using a kick that one would use for normal swimming in a cave?

No, it is an AOW class, not a cave class. (My cave speed is about 50 ft/min.)
It is the speed people use to get from A to B, if B is a long way from A.
 
Marci and I average right at 70 fpm, but once you add a stage we're down around 50-60 fpm again.

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Going to Hendley's Castle in P3 is a good example of a dive where the cave profile doesn't really lend itself to a direct ascent.

After the descent in the cavern, you've got 1100 feet or so of fairly level passage at an average depth of 55' to the passage that drops down to Hendley's. Once you get to the jump you quickly drop down to 135 ft, where you level off through the sand slide for about 50 ft, then drop down to 190' at the bottom of the room.

If you stay for any significant length of time you'll have to do your deep stops starting somewhere between 110' and 90' before you can get back to the main line. At that point you can't keep making the shallower stops so you just swim back to the cavern at 55' for 20-22 minutes before resuming the deco schedule.

My preference is to do a dive like that using a travel gas with a higher O2 percentage that a) reduces the use of the (much more expensive) trimix I'll use in the deep portion, b) reduces the on-gassing in the 22-25 minutes going in and then helps me off gas faster while in that 22-25 minutes section going out.

Practically speaking though one AL80 of travel gas isn't quite enough, and two is overkill, so I'll split the difference and use the stage for 800-900 feet or so (to 1/2 plus 200 psi), then switch to the bottom mix in the back gas or primary side mount tanks for the 200-300' to the jump and then down to the deep section and return.

The alternate approach is to just take a stage or two of trimix for use in the deep portion, using nitrox in the primary tanks for the shallow portions of the dive. The downsides with a single stage in that approach is a lack of suitable bailout gas in the deep portion, and much more limited bottom time. Worst case, if you bailed out to 30% at 190 feet you'd have a PPO2 of 2.0. You need to ascend without delay to the top of the room at 145 ft, where the PPO2 is down to 1.6. You're not going to tox immediately at a PPO2 of 2.0, but you don't want to be at that partial pressure more than a minute or two and you don't want to be working hard at that PP02.

Personally, I'm not a fan of that approach at all, even if the odds of a gas loss related failure is very low, so I'd do it with 2 stages with bottom mix to allow for an alternate supply of bottom mix, and a gas loss plan that keeps the PPO2 under 1.6

In terms of planning, provided you know the depths and distances involved as well as your swimming rate, you can construct an accurate dive plan in terms of decompression planning, gas planning and contingency planning. It's easier to do with dive planning software on a computer or laptop. Some dive computers will also allow multi-level dive planning.

For example, on the Shearwater Predator, you can enter each leg going in, and then in reverse going out and get a fairly detailed and accurate plan - it just takes a little time.

One feature of the Predator that might add some comfort and insight during the dive is the "@5" function for deco display. It lets you designate one positon on the screen to show how much time to surface is remaining 5 minutes from now based on your current depth. So while making that long swim at 55 ft, you'll look at the display and note that you'll have 2 or 3 minutes less decompression obligation 5 minutes from now, which is an indication of the efficiency of the deco at your current the depth. It's nice to see you're making progress despite being 20-30 feet deeper than your next required stop. Even on dives where you're prevented from ascending and the "@5" number is the same after 5 minutes, you at least know you're not picking up any more deco obligation (at least until the slower compartments become the limiting compartments). It's valuable feedback that will help you better understand the critical points in the plan as you start to expand into longer and deeper dives in caves with greater decompression obligations.

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I disagree that a full cave course prepares you well for decompression diving in caves. It really doesn't. At best it gives divers some training in leaving an O2 bottle on the line in the cavern and then switching to that O2 at the 20' stop. And it gives the diver some education in the need to plan for deco using O2, the reserves that are required, and the planning required for lost gas scenarios on a single deco gas dive.

But that's about it and it's a lot less than you'd get in an Advanced Nitrox, /Deco Procedures technical diving course from most agencies.

I'm a big believer in cave divers taking AN/DP in a cave environment (although some of the standards Nazis jump seem to want to jump on instructors for doing that unless the student is already full cave certified). Similarly, I am also a fan of cave divers taking trimix in a cave environment, as the planning and skill sets in a cave are substantially different than the planning and skill sets in offshore trimix diving. I actually re-took trimix in a cave environment just to get a better perspective on the challenges and nuances unique to trimix cave diving.

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If it's not obvious already I'm also critical of NACD and NSS-CDS for their limited approach to addressing decompression diving in caves, and taking it for granted that divers will learn what they need to know as part of a full cave course. In my opinion, a diver arriving for a full cave course without AN/DP is basically doing "trust me" dives for at least some of the dives in the class and is probably note getting enough emphasis on the deco aspects of the dive. And of course a diver who's taken AN/DP is really missing many of the skills unique to decompression in a cave environment. They really need to come up with a better method of teaching deco in caves, as the days when you just did it on air using square profiles are long gone.
 
I disagree that a full cave course prepares you well for decompression diving in caves. It really doesn't. At best it gives divers some training in leaving an O2 bottle on the line in the cavern and then switching to that O2 at the 20' stop. And it gives the diver some education in the need to plan for deco using O2, the reserves that are required, and the planning required for lost gas scenarios on a single deco gas dive.

But that's about it and it's a lot less than you'd get in an Advanced Nitrox, /Deco Procedures technical diving course from most agencies.

I'm a big believer in cave divers taking AN/DP in a cave environment (although some of the standards Nazis jump seem to want to jump on instructors for doing that unless the student is already full cave certified). Similarly, I am also a fan of cave divers taking trimix in a cave environment, as the planning and skill sets in a cave are substantially different than the planning and skill sets in offshore trimix diving. I actually re-took trimix in a cave environment just to get a better perspective on the challenges and nuances unique to trimix cave diving.

---

If it's not obvious already I'm also critical of NACD and NSS-CDS for their limited approach to addressing decompression diving in caves, and taking it for granted that divers will learn what they need to know as part of a full cave course. In my opinion, a diver arriving for a full cave course without AN/DP is basically doing "trust me" dives for at least some of the dives in the class and is probably note getting enough emphasis on the deco aspects of the dive. And of course a diver who's taken AN/DP is really missing many of the skills unique to decompression in a cave environment. They really need to come up with a better method of teaching deco in caves, as the days when you just did it on air using square profiles are long gone.

Apparently you're not alone. My instructor is teaching Cave1-3, then Tec45,Deco, then Cave4. Although it really is slightly more mixed than that, having covered much of the tec45 material and a deco dive along with cave2. It was necessary to get the dive times we needed for the classes.
 
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