lermontov
Contributor
I thought that was the baseline for all dive planning?
Decompression Stop Guidelines - What we have to do if got deco alert?
- Thread starter IDCBali
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Diver-Drex
Contributor
I'm a former Ranger, my wife is a critical care NP and a flight nurse. It's the baseline for life planning.
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Is it? I certainly don't see people planning rec diving in that manner.
We certainly don't and shouldn't plan for "all things go wrong".
I plan on losing a reg, sure. I don't plan on having a dolphin come to share air with me on my last reg while a shark is busy puncturing my bcd and drysuit.
You plan on what you feel is reasonable to have as failure. And in OW I've always seen "let's turn at half tank" (including reserve, so (full - reserve)/2 is what you can use), which was more than enough on those dives, seeing the possibilities of failures and the immediate ascent that would follow.
Remember those guys (solo divers) that suggested putting your thumb on the inflator, and then wrapping a rubber band around it, so that you have to fight the band all dive but if you lose consciousness, you'll at least end up at the surface?
They plan for the worst, yet it's idiotic.
I plan on losing a reg, sure. I don't plan on having a dolphin come to share air with me on my last reg while a shark is busy puncturing my bcd and drysuit.
You plan on what you feel is reasonable to have as failure. And in OW I've always seen "let's turn at half tank" (including reserve, so (full - reserve)/2 is what you can use), which was more than enough on those dives, seeing the possibilities of failures and the immediate ascent that would follow.
Remember those guys (solo divers) that suggested putting your thumb on the inflator, and then wrapping a rubber band around it, so that you have to fight the band all dive but if you lose consciousness, you'll at least end up at the surface?
They plan for the worst, yet it's idiotic.
This applies to so much in life and is the primary difference between Eeyore (me) and Tigger (my wife)
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Diver-Drex
Contributor
@The Chairman - agreed that it doesn't happen but not that it shouldn't. I don't think you're suggesting that it shouldn't or that you don't already know what I'm about to say, this isn't direct at you specifically.
Planning is proportionate to the dive; it's hazards, the frequency of their occurrence and the severity of their outcome. It's a continuum of risk with the extreme ends being:
- Hazards with severe outcomes and a real chance of happening need to be planned for.
- Low frequency, negligible impact hazards need little planning.
The industry continues to engage in this risk assessment. The typical hazards in a typical rec dive are generally well accounted for in OW training and the basic SCUBA equipment configuration. Mask clearing, reg recover, SPGs replacing j valves... And instructors should add as needed for the dive conditions in their area. So the hazards have been identified and training and equipment are in place to reduce the frequency of their occurance.
Maintaining these skills and equipment, properly using them and performing your own analysis when dive conditions are different is the responsibility of individual diver.
So bringing this back into context of the OP... a diver may have the skills and equipment to dive within NDLs but may not use them correctly, i.e. not paying attention to thier PDC and going into "accidental deco". The PDC should decrease the frequency of DCS by giving a diver real time information about NDL time remaining. Ignoring the information negates the intended bennefit.
So how do you get people to pay attention?
- Add alarms that are harder to ignore?
- Scare people into compliance during training?
- Put a DM in the water to keep everyone safe?
- concede they won't no matter what and show them how to handle it when it happens?
- let them prove Darwin was correct?
Planning is proportionate to the dive; it's hazards, the frequency of their occurrence and the severity of their outcome. It's a continuum of risk with the extreme ends being:
- Hazards with severe outcomes and a real chance of happening need to be planned for.
- Low frequency, negligible impact hazards need little planning.
The industry continues to engage in this risk assessment. The typical hazards in a typical rec dive are generally well accounted for in OW training and the basic SCUBA equipment configuration. Mask clearing, reg recover, SPGs replacing j valves... And instructors should add as needed for the dive conditions in their area. So the hazards have been identified and training and equipment are in place to reduce the frequency of their occurance.
Maintaining these skills and equipment, properly using them and performing your own analysis when dive conditions are different is the responsibility of individual diver.
So bringing this back into context of the OP... a diver may have the skills and equipment to dive within NDLs but may not use them correctly, i.e. not paying attention to thier PDC and going into "accidental deco". The PDC should decrease the frequency of DCS by giving a diver real time information about NDL time remaining. Ignoring the information negates the intended bennefit.
So how do you get people to pay attention?
- Add alarms that are harder to ignore?
- Scare people into compliance during training?
- Put a DM in the water to keep everyone safe?
- concede they won't no matter what and show them how to handle it when it happens?
- let them prove Darwin was correct?
The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
Set a great example. If the instructor won't pay attention, then how can we expect them to? Dive as you want them to dive.
Current theory is to ingrain the habits through repetition during instruction.
In the current PADI OW program, students are supposed to respond to multiple inquiries about their current gas levels, throughout both the pool sessions and the OW dives, without looking at their gauges. They are supposed to be reasonably close on that estimate because they had previously been checking regularly on their own.
That can help, but that is a limited time in instruction.
I will tell you one thing that had an impact on me. I was a new cave diving student, and my instructor said that anyone missing their turn pressure fails the class, with no refund. I assure you that as I got closer and closer to my turn pressure, that spg was in my hand pretty often. I am still very anal about checking my gauges, whether in a cave, a tech dive, or a recreational dive.
In the current PADI OW program, students are supposed to respond to multiple inquiries about their current gas levels, throughout both the pool sessions and the OW dives, without looking at their gauges. They are supposed to be reasonably close on that estimate because they had previously been checking regularly on their own.
That can help, but that is a limited time in instruction.
I will tell you one thing that had an impact on me. I was a new cave diving student, and my instructor said that anyone missing their turn pressure fails the class, with no refund. I assure you that as I got closer and closer to my turn pressure, that spg was in my hand pretty often. I am still very anal about checking my gauges, whether in a cave, a tech dive, or a recreational dive.
That really happened?Remember those guys (solo divers) that suggested putting your thumb on the inflator, and then wrapping a rubber band around it, so that you have to fight the band all dive but if you lose consciousness, you'll at least end up at the surface?
I think I saw some goofy power inflator product on kickstarter that might be right up those folks' alley.
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