Depth: 95 ft, In Deco, 500 psi, No Buddy

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Your thinking would be correct if the air supply was critically low. Even if I was at zero psi in the main tank,I personally had a 13 cu-ft pony (if I recall correctly) to make the ascent - so there was no need to rush to the surface, I had the luxury of coming up slowly and clearing the very small deco penalty by the time I reached 44 ft or so.

It took me only about 100 psi to ascent from about 100 and get to 44 ft (where the deco cleared) and since I was calm, relaxed and was not exerting myself, my air demand would remain low giving me more than enough air to continue to ascend in a controlled manner and do a safety stop - without running out or using the pony.

So in this situation, your safety would not be enhanced by rushing to the 10 ft deco stop ASAP- Obviously a diver has to make some decisions if they are at 100 ft with less air than they would like and no pony bottle.

The video shows that this particular ascent was trivial and simple and required very little air. That demonstration may give others the confidence to not rush to the surface unnecessarily (if they screw up).

Of course it is more important to have something to breathe than to worry about the consequences of violating a decompression ceiling, but a diver has to make reasonable decisions, once they put themselves in that type of undesirable situation.

Again, I am not advocating for recreational divers to push the NDL or to start their ascents with too little air.

Also. one of the things I dislike about the discussions on this forum has to deal with people bragging about how little air they use. My personal SAC is not low at all. I am over 200 lbs and not young and use a good bit of air. I have found out long ago that trying to use less gas than is needed will give me headaches and it is actually quite dangerous for a variety of reasons.

So one of the things that divers should be able to discern from the video is that if you start the ascent calm and rested and not sucking wind, and you don't kick up, but "drift" upward using the BC and breath control, you can remain motionless and this may keep your air use to a low level - at least for the few minutes it takes to get a lot closer to the surface.

So even if you had no pony bottle, had 250 psi in your 80 ft tank, no buddy and a short deco, putting a puff of air in the BC and trying very hard to relax and watch the computer would probably be safer than swimming really hard and trying to get to 20 feet in 60 seconds or something. It is really important that you not use the large quad muscles and keep your arms calm if you have to make a low on air ascent (and want to preserve the air supply). This sort of situation would be a true EMERGENCY, but that means it is more important that your response to it needs to be appropriate.

For me personally, I would be pretty comfortable swimming to the surface from 40 ft depth with no air in an emergency. Much deeper than that, my comfort level drops a lot - so anything 60 feet or deeper will cause me to carry a pony bottle - even when diving with a buddy.

In general, I do some diving in 20 feet and carry no pony bottle and everything else is 50 - 60 feet (or more) - so I always have a pony.
Would you have come this close to Rock Bottom margins, and accruing minimum deco at depth in water conditions & environments less benign and more challenging than you experienced in the video? (i.g. Currents, poor visibility, low ambient light/night dive, and a high density kelp forest canopy like we have here on the Opening Night & Weekend of the SoCal Lobster Season). . .Even with a 13cf pony bottle?

IMHO, all it would take was one more adverse problem above for an overwhelming cascade into "The Incident Pit". . .
 
Last edited:
The way I read it DD didn't lose situational awareness. He chose to exceed his NDL in order to attempt his task, knowing that it would be a very minor deco requirement that would either clear during a normal ascent or with a very brief stop. Even if it was the result of losing situational awareness I wouldn't say that experienced divers "can get away with it". Plenty of experienced divers lose situational awareness and don't get away with it when the "it" isn't something this minor.
Oh i have no doubt that dumpster knew exactly what he was doing and that this is not an unusual dive for him. And FWIW have no problem with this nor posting the video. I also know that he likes to stir the pot. My issue is with the "training" aspect as it has been presented.

To clarify for new divers or those not familar with dd and where he dives.

He is a well seasoned diver with strong problem solving skills and has a known very low risk for panic. He is also a frequent solo diver and set up for solo diving. He is also a freediver and quite likely capable of doing a deep CESA if needed. A 13 cf pony is more than adequate for his needs.

This is a drift dive where direct access to the surface is always available. No need to return to any point for ascent.

Because it is a solo drift dive, there really isn't any place for Rock Bottom calculations.

As to the training aspect, no diver should be "surprise" by aquiring deco time. It doesn't sneak up on a diver. Only a diver not monitering his time will not realize NDL limit is approaching.

Low on air however can happen when for whatever reason the respiratory effort goes up for a length of time. At this point a calm safe ascent is important. Not sure I agree with encouraging newish divers to add air to BCD, especially if they may respond to stress with panic. A rocket trip to the surface is what you are trying to avoid. Unless you have yourself negatively bouyant to start with, a deep breath and one or two soft kicks should get you started and physics will do the rest.

And my last point is that I would never count on an SPG reading as absolute. If it says 500 I treat it as near empty.
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure I agree with all of those characterizations. In general, I have a pretty short fuse and am somewhat high strung. I've had my little incidents underwater and have survived them all, but I don't know that my panic threshold is much different than anyone else who has been doing this stuff every weekend for 40 years.. LOL

The educational value (if there is any) is not to dive like I do, but rather don't freak out if the DC clicks into the red zone and shoot to the surface and waste a lot of air exerting yourself.

The issue about adding air to the BC for ascent is a valid concern. Since I would be negative when catching a lobster on the bottom, I could start the ascent by kicking, but with very little exposure suit to expand and help me reach neutral, I prefer to add just enough air to start moving without exertion.

In my experience, it wastes less air to add some to the BC, rather than kick and consume air and get your breathing rate up, but once you start moving expansion of air and the suit will require some attention to detail. That is one reason why I don't start winding the line in on the reel. I want to do nothing and completely relax and just watch the gages for the initial part of the ascent. Once I am 50 or 60 feet closer to the surface, I am within swimming distance and I can start to mess around with the reel.
 
Last edited:
HaHaHa. Yes a temper underwater is a liability but panic is on a whole other level.
 
Would you have come this close to Rock Bottom margins, and accruing minimum deco at depth in water conditions & environments less benign and more challenging than you experienced in the video? (i.g. Currents, poor visibility, low ambient light/night dive, and a high density kelp forest canopy like we have here on the Opening Night & Weekend of the SoCal Lobster Season). . .Even with a 13cf pony bottle?

IMHO, all it would take was one more adverse problem above for an overwhelming cascade into "The Incident Pit". . .
Asking if you would do a totally different dive in totally different conditions in a different manner is a totally different question.
If you choose to electively push margins of safety then you should be aware of and account for potential adverse conditions that can negatively affect those margins. . .
 
Having 500psi is far from running out of gas.. Because PADI and all the others have brainwashed the masses
I guess it's all about your risk acceptance. Me, I don't feel comfortable with 35 bar in an 11L tank. My personal safety stop limit is 50 bar in a 10L tank, or 35 bar in a 15L tank. Given my RMV, that's about 15 minutes at 5m depth. So, about ten minutes' margin at the safety stop provided I don't have to share air and aren't stressed due to some unanticipated situation. Me, I prefer to plan my dive to allow for realistic unforeseen situations, and if you don't see any reason to do that, that's all up to you. Me, I prefer a safety margin, but then I might well be a brainwashed sissy.
 
I guess it's all about your risk acceptance. Me, I don't feel comfortable with 35 bar in an 11L tank. My personal safety stop limit is 50 bar in a 10L tank, or 35 bar in a 15L tank. Given my RMV, that's about 15 minutes at 5m depth. So, about ten minutes' margin at the safety stop provided I don't have to share air and aren't stressed due to some unanticipated situation. Me, I prefer to plan my dive to allow for realistic unforeseen situations, and if you don't see any reason to do that, that's all up to you. Me, I prefer a safety margin, but then I might well be a brainwashed sissy.

I'm just back from a solo dive to 120' scouting for Lionfish.... And , Having just eat a Lionfish burger with fries for lunch here in Bonaire... Drinking a rum and coke from the hammock.... Let me retort...

I feel sorry that you have little faith in your SPG... All mine are checked out by me every now and again to make sure they work.. Also , Keeping a eye on your gas / workload is just part of being a good diver.. When I start diving with my wife , That was one of the things drilled in to her head... I can ask for her tank pressure anytime in a dive and she "knows" within a hundred or so psi...

Back before SPG's we had J-valves that left us 300 To 500 psi to get home.. You needed to know gas management... There were no computers... You knew the Navy tables and could do Deco on the fly if needed.. I have a computer today... It sits on my left wrist... I'll look at it from time to time... But on my Right wrist is my watch and Bottom timer... Those are and will always be my goto instruments...

Nap time for this old Northeast wreck diver....

Jim...
 
Last edited:
Back before SPG's we had K-valves

J-valves for those of us that can still remember... :)
 

Back
Top Bottom