Design your own OW class!

[sheck33]

the vast majority is satisfied with their training because they dont know any better or sometimes are so stuck in their ways that it is hard to convince them there are better ways to do some things. Whenever someone asks what is a good next class to take i tell them to consider the DIRF class

 

[Se7en]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...

the blown out vis, the number of tanks we saw fall out of bc straps and the almost universal methode of toting alternate and gages (flying in the breeze like a flag) but they all seemed to have fun. They seemed to be working too hard but even the ones who survived rapid ascents to their belly buttons seemed to be in good humor.

Mike
I think you have hit on why some / most people are satisfied with the standard of dive training at the moment, and the standard of skills in 'divers'.

Most people don't want to learn to 'dive', they simply want to learn to breath underwater. And that's exactly what they get from an OW course. They are taught how to breath while they stumble around aimlessly, much like the same people would do on land. All you have done is taken the typical gormless tourist in a hawian shirt with a camera around their neck, and transported them from their bus tour to a reef tour.

And that's fine, and a perfectly good business model. It certainly makes the clients happy.

Then you will have those people who want to learn how to dive. Who see diving as an end in itself, not just breathing underwater. These people will see that the OW course did just teach them to breath underwater, and will go looking for a way to learn to dive - be it more courses, or through a mentor, or just bootstrapping themselves.

The above is why I don't think there is a problem with the current trend to make OW training as easy as possible. It does a good job of teaching people to breath underwater.

(suck on this, never hold your breath, don't go too deep, and ascend slowly when you run low on air)
That's all a basic course actually needs to teach - if you don't go below 60ft (as is the limit for OW) you don't need to know anything about tables, narcosis, proper boyancy etc as they won't ever be an issue diving to 60 ft on a single tank.

The problem is that people have learnt to breath underwater think that they can dive, and the BIG problem is that there is no course short of tech stuff that teaches people to be recreational divers, rather than just underwater breathers.

So my approach would be to leave the OW course as crap as it is, and use it to certify underwater breathers. Then develop a new course which teaches people to dive, once they have mastered underwater breathing. This course could be longer and more expensive, as it would be taken by people who could see the value in good instruction. It would have to include all the areas such as trim, boyancy, navigation etc.
DIRF may be getting close I guess, but I feel the requirements for gear is too strict for a general 'dive' course.

Mike

BTW - I consider myself an excellent underwater breather - I have breathed under water many hundreds of times, and am a PADI underwater breather master. I'm only just starting to learn to dive however, and have a lifetime of learning to go.

 

[DameDykker]

Se7en

I think you hit it on the nail. I'm just retaking my RD (NASE) in preparation for the Emergency Responce Diver course next month. We're only four people. Two paying guests, me and a AI treainee. And a good instructor.

Since I'm contemplating doing the AI and maybe Instructor course afterwards I'm asking a lot of questions and thinking back on my own start in diving (almost 9 years back!) as well as all the students I've seen and dove with over the last five years in my club where they teach CMAS.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems.

PADI(/NASE):

Too short BOW course, but people do get the fun very soon.
The same is tought all over, but it is the lowest common factor.

CMAS(/BSAC)

Very long and good cource, but some do very well in the pool but when confronted with open water after a winter of exercises, they just drop out.
Since it is not commericial there's a tendency to avoid new gear. Many still will only use and teach horse collar and tables - no computers and jacket type BCD. And don't even talk about DIR regs.

I know that if I had been going the second way I wouldn't be diving today. BUT I also know that I need that extra skill to be a diver. And I'm still improving.

Having said that I clearly remember that having my own gear a spending 1 day in the pool doing bouyancy exercises were necessary for me to master that skill.

On details on the BOW I'll have to refrain. It's been too long.

 

[Dan Gibson]

Mike,

I was reading your post. I think your idea about the staff never touching the bottom is right on. However, I question whether this meets PADI standards. Not that I favor being on the bottom, but the standards seem to indicate that the BC removal and weightbelt removal (integrated appears to be an exception) are to be done on the bottom. At least that is what the standards indicate in confined water dive five. I am not sure if I have missed an update.

The only other time you need to be on the bottom (that can be argued) is the fin pivots. I can see how an instructor could interpret this to be a pivot point other than fintips on the bottom, but it does say a point of contact. I would like to think that my cg is in contact with the water.

Ascents another area. The rotating thing as you swim up seems like a bad idea. I try to stick to keeping an eye on my buddy. I don't know that it is an actual requirment, but is in the description of the five point ascent.

Do the above PADI requirements make it harder to teach good skills? I guess it depends how hardcore one wants to be. Personally I think it is best that students never gets to see the instructor or DMs on the bottom and buddies are actually aware of each other.

Have you found a way that actually lets you teach the proper skills without violating standards? If your are not PADI, maybe this is not a concern. I am not sure of your agency affiliation.

Dan

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
My turn...

As most know I am an instructor. Here is a partial description of what we have done, what we want to do and why. This board has been a significant resource and that’s part of the reason I am posting this.

First some statements of how I perceive things.

I don’t believe current standards prevent a good class.
I don’t believe current standards insure a good class.

I do believe the following do prevent good training:
1, There are market pressures to shorten and cheapen training. I won’t list them but they come from both manufacturers of equipment and the customer as well as other competition
2, An instructors idea of what good training is will be, to some extent, based on his/her own training. Many instructors have little (dive) training beyond AOW. Think about it. A DM or instructor course teaches supervision and how to teach. What additional training do they have in the basics such as trim, equipment configuration, propulsion techniques and so on and so on. Have you ever heard of a recreational instructor candidate failing because of poor trim, fining technique or silting as a result? Is an instructor ever asked to remove and replace a mask while maintaining depth and trim? Can a diver of this level develop other divers of this level? Yes. Is this good enough? IMO, most divers and instructors don’t know the difference because that’s all they have seen.

Over the past several years as I have attempted to run a DS and as I’ve continued my own training and experience I couldn’t help but notice that the divers around me just flat out stink. I don’t just mean a little off, I mean rotgut bad. I noticed that the instructors didn’t look so hot either. The students do it like the instructor. Here is the real kicker…my students were diving just like the rest. But wait, I was doing everything right. Well, the way I was taught anyway.

I started to look at what I think the end product should be and the process that produces it. I also spoke with and stole ideas from people like Jarrod Jablonski and other instructors I know that have stopped teaching for dive shops out of disgust. I started evaluating the standards with respect to what is actually required and what is left to the discretion of the instructor. For instance, we must have students swim neutrally buoyant. We can have them properly trimmed if we want. We can teach a frog and modified frog kick if we want. We must have them hover. We can have them balanced and trimmed to hover horizontally if we want. We must demonstrate skills like reg recovery/clearing, mask remove/replace and air sharing. We may demonstrate these skills while kneeling on the bottom if we want or we can demonstrate them while hovering horizontally and maintaining depth. We can insist on good buddy skills if we want. Many say that an instructor is diving solo. The instructor may be the responsible party and have the most experience in the group but if pool and classroom training were successful nobody should be solo.

The above opinions and observations led to some no-brainer type changes. The changes started in the classroom. It is the instructor’s job to show application for the material.
I show video of recreational divers in the Caribbean. I point out the poor trim, total lack of buddy teams, the poor buoyancy control and the dangling equipment. Also obvious, is the damage to the reef. I also show footage of cave divers. I don’t do this to promote cave diving but to show proper trim, buoyancy control and team diving. Eventually I will get some video of these skills outside of a cave. I also show a video called “A Deceptively easy Way to Die”. I do this to keep them out of caves and all other environments that they are not trained for. In lecture I explain the mechanics of balance and trim and show what equipment and techniques we use to manage them. We illustrate the consequences of poor trim and buoyancy control. I talk about how basic skills affect ones ability to cope with a problem and avoid problems in the first place. I give personal accounts of real world examples. I talk about different methods of donating air, my experiences with them and why we teach it the way we do (Hogarthian).

In the Pool
We added some time and adjusted the cost accordingly. There is time each session for practice and play. We use a buoyancy control course and various mask games to have fun, reinforce good technique and keep repetition interesting.

From the beginning, no staff member ever touches the bottom. All skills are demonstrated while holding depth and trim. I can’t teach hovering this early but if students emulate us (and some do) I don’t stop them. If needed students are allowed (not encouraged) to use the bottom during early skill practice. At this stage it is more important to learn the mechanics such as learning to breath under water, clearing a reg and mask or recovering a reg. When we demonstrate UW swimming we do not stress the flutter but the frog and modified frog. I also demonstrate turns and reverse kicks. Interesting enough, divers seem to naturally want to flutter. I guess this is from past swimming experience. They get over it.

When we get to neutral buoyant swimming we move tanks and weights to help achieve proper trim. We continue these efforts when we teach hovering. Hovering is done in a horizontal position and then more swimming. From here on we avoid the bottom completely. Good buddy skills are stressed throughout and in fact I have some new ideas to reinforce team concepts. Every class is a beta version it seems.

OW is more of the same except we are less forgiving when it comes to buddy and situational awareness. In a course of this length these skill are not mastered but a new diver will know what it looks like and be well on their way. At this point they can choose which video they wish star in.

In addition we plan to get video capability. Video has been used as a training aid for years in sports and even public speaking it would be silly not to use it.

We are considering offering a follow-up class with the sole purpose of refining and polishing these same skills.

In answer to the suggestion of free classes, forget it. We all must eat. My time is valuable to my family and me and if it isn’t valuable to the student they should go elsewhere.

We have made similar changes in AOW and rescue classes but maybe that should be another thread.

I welcome flames, criticisms and suggestions.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Dan,
In keeping with the standards we do fin pivots and when we do we do touch the bottom.

Students often are on the bottom when removing tha bc an weights in module 5. When I demonstrate the skill I am not on the bottom.

You bring up an intersting point about being on the bottom during bc removal. I have always taken that to mean underwater near the bottom as apposed to at or near the surface. I could be wrong but as I said students use the bottom.

As far as ascents, this is first done in modul one. I do not attempt to tach a controle buoyant ascent this early. A 5 point ascent specifies looking up and reaching up (they don't want you ti hit anything). they do not specify being totally vertical or not looking at your buddy. I don't make a big deal of horizantal ascents/descents although I do demonstrate and address it.

My goal is to give them an understanding of proper weighting, balance and trim and to teach them not to use the bottom as a crutch. For instance students will often be on the bottom during mask removal and replacement. Module 2 is a little early to insist that the hover especially since the haven't learned that yet. However, when I demonstrate it I hover.

When I first started teaching I would overweight myself so I could sit on the bottom and demonstrate skills. I go out diving and see divers all over the bottom. As a new diver, I got a rude awakening the first time I had a mask knocked off. I was midwater along a wall. When I took a deep breath to clear my mask I started up and almost spit my lungs out. I then taught myself to do it off the bottom. I have been pissed about that one ever since.

I don't think the requirements make it hard to teach. Although there are some things I might change if I had my way. For instance its hard to do UW swimming in module one (while controling depth and direction while not working on getting neutral until module three. Much of what we all do or did on the bottom wasn't because of standards it was because of the way we were taught. We must comply with the bold print and I will check into the intent of the explicit mention of the bottom in the bc and weight belt remova/replacement. I'm safe on the other skills. PADI stresses the evaluation of the intent of the standards. I often talk with training consultants.

5 point ascent
1- signal
2- note time
3 - hand over head and on bc control
4 - look up (doesn't say continuously)
5 - swim up while rotating
No mention of being vertical or not looking at buddy

In the steps for the descent there is no mantion of orientation.

 

[Dan Gibson]

Mike,

That explanation sounds good to me.

One thing I would note is that the swimming up while rotation kind of forces you to not watch your buddy, unless you both rotate together around a single point.

I have often wondered if the bold print refers to the student or to the instuctor and student. Much of what you have said is common sense. The thing that gets me is that there are instructors that quote the standards as the way it should be done or you are violating the standard. I would hope there is some interpretation left up to the instructor.

Dan

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
Dan,
In keeping with the standards we do fin pivots and when we do we do touch the bottom.

Students often are on the bottom when removing tha bc an weights in module 5. When I demonstrate the skill I am not on the bottom.

You bring up an intersting point about being on the bottom during bc removal. I have always taken that to mean underwater near the bottom as apposed to at or near the surface. I could be wrong but as I said students use the bottom.

As far as ascents, this is first done in modul one. I do not attempt to tach a controle buoyant ascent this early. A 5 point ascent specifies looking up and reaching up (they don't want you ti hit anything). they do not specify being totally vertical or not looking at your buddy. I don't make a big deal of horizantal ascents/descents although I do demonstrate and address it.

My goal is to give them an understanding of proper weighting, balance and trim and to teach them not to use the bottom as a crutch. For instance students will often be on the bottom during mask removal and replacement. Module 2 is a little early to insist that the hover especially since the haven't learned that yet. However, when I demonstrate it I hover.

When I first started teaching I would overweight myself so I could sit on the bottom and demonstrate skills. I go out diving and see divers all over the bottom. As a new diver, I got a rude awakening the first time I had a mask knocked off. I was midwater along a wall. When I took a deep breath to clear my mask I started up and almost spit my lungs out. I then taught myself to do it off the bottom. I have been pissed about that one ever since.

I don't think the requirements make it hard to teach. Although there are some things I might change if I had my way. For instance its hard to do UW swimming in module one (while controling depth and direction while not working on getting neutral until module three. Much of what we all do or did on the bottom wasn't because of standards it was because of the way we were taught. We must comply with the bold print and I will check into the intent of the explicit mention of the bottom in the bc and weight belt remova/replacement. I'm safe on the other skills. PADI stresses the evaluation of the intent of the standards. I often talk with training consultants.

5 point ascent
1- signal
2- note time
3 - hand over head and on bc control
4 - look up (doesn't say continuously)
5 - swim up while rotating
No mention of being vertical or not looking at buddy

In the steps for the descent there is no mantion of orientation.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think the standards are meant to be a tool not an excuse not to think. There have been many instances where a PADI standards clearifications seemed to be a direct contradiction of the standards. They are the first to admit that they can't put everything in print and that's why understanding the intent is so important. Now I might be wrong about the bc removal but that still wouldn't be a big deal to me because in all my dives the only time I ever removed a bc underwater was in training. If PADI tells me I must touch the bottom for that skill, ok.

I don't think we're doing anything real radical but it is alot different than the way I was taught. Certainly it's different than the way I was taught to teach I think it's doing some good. Even our assistants are really exited about the way our classes run. It is also very satisfying when an OW student on their first or second dive is complaining about the other classes blowing out the vis and voices astonishment at all the divers with unsecured equipment. They know the difference.

 

[Dan Gibson]

Mike,

It would be radical to some of the instructors I have been around.

I actually had an instructor tell me the other day that the bp harness was to complex for OW students trying to learn how to clear a mask. I was speechless. How do you respond to such utter nonsense. I don't think I could have done it without laughing in his face. This was a guy who is very near getting his Master Instructor.

Since we (an Instructor and myself who have been through the Fundamentals course) started doing classes in much the same way that you are talking about, I have been amazed at how the students react. In the past, when we did this stuff on the bottom, students just did the skills and we heard no comments. Now they want to know how we can just hover with little to no motion. It seems that this is the best way to get them more exicted about learning to dive. When back kicks are tossed in for show, there jaws just seem to drop.

How would I design an OW course? It seems to me the most critical thing is being a better role model when it comes to buoyancy and trim. I would also encourage students to do the skills in midwater during freetime. I really hate when free time becomes sitting on the bottom and breathing time. Making a game out of practicing buoyancy and trim is a great idea. Video tape is great if the shop can afford it and has time to critique the students.

Dan

 

[newdiverAZ]

Mike,
After reading thru this thread, I would be willing to take one of your classes. I am actually starting my O/W classes starting this friday. Too bad for me I'm not in your area. I guess I can hope that my instructor will have somewhere near the amount of concern you have for divers and the environment. I really applaud this trait. Out of curiosity, how much does your O/W class go for.I'm paying 750 for my wife, my nephew, and myself for a private class. Do you know of any instructors with your level of awareness in Arizona.



Thanx
Brian

 

[jonnythan]

newdiverAZ once bubbled...
Mike,
After reading thru this thread, I would be willing to take one of your classes.

I disagree with Mike about a few things, but the more he tells us about his OW classes, the more I really wish I had taken it. Sounds like he runs a really great and unique class, and I'm glad someone out there is doing so.