Design your own OW class!

[detroit diver]

newdiverAZ once bubbled...
Mike,
After reading thru this thread, I would be willing to take one of your classes. I am actually starting my O/W classes starting this friday. Too bad for me I'm not in your area. I guess I can hope that my instructor will have somewhere near the amount of concern you have for divers and the environment. I really applaud this trait. Out of curiosity, how much does your O/W class go for.I'm paying 750 for my wife, my nephew, and myself for a private class. Do you know of any instructors with your level of awareness in Arizona.

Thanx
Brian

Brian,

Not speaking for Mike, but a private class here runs $300-$350 per person. If your instructors good, you got an inexpensive class. If not, well....

edited to add: Therein lies the problem for most aspiring divers. How do you know what you're getting in an instructor? The "lucky" ones that do their homework MAY come out okay. I think most people look up the closest or cheapest LDS and plunk the money down without even doing any research. I for one, chose my class because of it's schedule. Not too bright, but I didn't know the difference or what to ask beforehand. I got EXTREMELY lucky to have the instructor that I did (he's now an instructor trainee for GUE).

Most divers don't even know they're doing anything wrong.....

 

[MikeFerrara]

newdiverAZ,
Sorry, I don't know any one at all in Arizona. We charge $300 for our class. We pay a good deal for a pool and usually travel to get to the best OW sites. We are also as flexible as possible with the schedule. We currently include almost, if not, double the pool time of any other shop around and we plan to add another night to that. It seems to make a huge difference. Another thing we include at no extra cost is extra OW dives. Our cost includes everything except park entrance for OW.

 

[zboss]

Scuba once bubbled...
One thing about classes is certain: no matter how good the quality of instruction, no one is going to become profficient in a short class.

I for one, regardless of type of class, would appreciate the opportunity to have some follow up on my progress. Having the opportunity to get together every couple weeks at a dive site with your peers as well as an instructor that will critique and provide tips for improvement, for maybe 2 or three months after the class, would encourage learning, camaraderie, loyalty to a shop and istructor, as well as encourage people to keep on diving on a regular basis.

Peter

Peter - I think this is an excellent idea. I suspect that if you asked your instructor about this that they might do it at a very reduced cost or even free of charge.

You can also take periodic refresher courses.

 

[metridium]

OW Standards:
I wouldn't change that much about OW, other than adding increased emphasis on proper weighting and trim. This should remain a basic course aimed at vacation divers and laying a foundation for those who want something more.

OW Pricing:
I would certainly pay for high quality training now, but I wouldn't have paid more for OW back in the day. I had no idea how far I'd want to go in the sport, or even if I'd do more than a few dives and quit, so there would have been little incentive to risk more cash.

AOW on the other hand....

I'd definitely redo it along the lines of the DIRF classes - based on what I've read of them - yet keep the night/deep/navigation disciplines. Standards for successfully passing the course would be stringent.

 

[jbd]

I agree with your thoughts on this.

I am however forced to ask if your Mother knows you use language like that(in your signature area)

 

[Butch103]

cmay once bubbled...

I teach through an agency that really takes a beating on this board. I feel this is totally not justified. Although I do have some issues about the agency's direction and focus, I do not have a problem with their educational programs. In fact, I feel they are some of the best developed in the industry. The standards in these programs are minimum. It is MY responsibility as the instructor to build on these minimum standards with MY insight and MY skills to develop MY the divers under MY care. Quite frankly, if I produce poor divers it is MY fault, not the agency's. With that said, I would stack the divers that I have certified up against divers from ANY agency.

I don't "fail" students. I do take them aside and recommend that they come back and do some more pool sessions. Quite frankly, they are often well aware of their short comings and relieved that you pointed it out. I was really lucky to have "come up through the ranks" with the instructors that I did. They all made themselves available to go diving with me when ever I asked. I can not begin to tell you how much this helped in my development as a diver. I try to do the same with my students.

Cmay.......I congratulate you on your response.....I have read many threads on this board and a lot of responses are the typical "it is not the agency it is the instructor" response, but this is the first time I can remember ( and I apologize to those who have admitted to this) an instructor making your statement and of course backing the "nasty" agency.....

It is refreshing to say the least.............

As for the original question, I have certified with PADI up to (and including) Rescue. The OW I would add to the original course and increased number of certified dives.. In other words have approx 10 dives to help with the bouyancy controls and comfort under the water......The bouyancy issue appears to be the biggest issue with many on this board. It does appear that this is probably the most important skill to master (if it can be mastered)..and deserves more attention.......

 

[zboss]

I had my first pool session last night so I am working from fresh memory here... as has been said before "your mileage may vary".

The only thing that I thought our class could have benefited more from is an emphasis on the buddy system. More buddy procedures, more discussion as to hand-signals between the actual buddies, and to tell each student to be communicative with their buddies during the swim. This was especially important - in my opinion - during the final 30 minutes of the class when everyone was getting physically tired.

Of course - we were only swimming around in a pool but I was amazed at how quickly my buddy (who was leading) was moving in the water - to the point that she was about 10 feet away from me and not looking back. At that point the instructor pointed at me and gave me the "where's your buddy signal". I didn't think it was an issue at first but then I thought "what if visibility had been only 3 feet?" we may have lost each-other.

Also - during the skin dive portion of the class - we were pretty much doing our own thing and there was no mention of buddies as far as I remember. It would have also been worthy to mention that - at least logically speaking - if most accidents take place after the dive on the surface during scuba that the same applies for skin diving.

This observation is in no way a critique of the instructors skill or my LDS - just observations based on this thread topic...

 

[seatacea]

Regarding a reply in this thread that classes "should be free": ARE YOU STUPID? What kind of instruction do expect to get for FREE? You must be kidding! Or are you just so young that you haven't learned that you get what you pay for?

 

[jonnythan]

seatacea once bubbled...
Regarding a reply in this thread that classes "should be free": ARE YOU STUPID? What kind of instruction do expect to get for FREE? You must be kidding! Or are you just so young that you haven't learned that you get what you pay for?

If I were so qualified, I'd teach a class for free. I dunno how I'd find pool time or rental gear (club maybe?), but I'd donate my time for a couple classes a year.

My school's club uses a LDS to teach classes, but owns its own gear and provides its own (free) pool time. The students are charged $130 for the class, and we do two classes a year. I'd be more than happy to teach these classes for free. I'll probably become an instructor one day, and maybe I'll do just that.

 

[sheck33]

seatacea once bubbled...
Regarding a reply in this thread that classes "should be free": ARE YOU STUPID? What kind of instruction do expect to get for FREE? You must be kidding! Or are you just so young that you haven't learned that you get what you pay for?

dear jonnythan

No i dont think i am stupid and no i wish i were still young



however, i was certified in europe through CMAS to start with and i can tell that THAT instruction which i did NOT have to pay for other than the instructional manual of about $30 was FAR FAR better than the DM and AI courses here that i DID pay for. My reasoning was that instructors not charging tuition fees are more motivated and teach better than instructors that have to make a living doing it, the instructors in my Holland did teaching as a hobby and were very motivated. One instructor i work with sometimes does teaching for a living and i have seen that instructor certify people that shouldnt be to the point were i was thinking about contacting the agency to stop it.

it's funny you say you get what you pay for, why do you think PADI is the biggest agency?? Because they are cheap and indeed you get what you pay for, how very sadly true that is in most of the classes