Dive shops and training: the disconnect with reality

[gcbryan]

Alright, even though Steve deserves all the flack he is getting, a newer diver might read this and think this is a tough crowd and be reluctant to post.

It's good if recreational divers have a good understanding of gas management, even though it's not usually necessary to plan out for each dive once you do it a few times, but many divers haven't learned this and still through experience do dive with adequate reserves (and many don't of course).

Just to be fair here...(I just hate saying that in this case.)

We're giving someone more attention than they deserve and at the same time we're perhaps sending the wrong message to others.

 

[Sas]

I don't "know" my SAC is the same but there is no reason to believe it's any different than it was 3 years ago. I tested my SAC under typical diving conditions and I understand that if I am anxious due to an emergency it may be somewhat higher.

There is no reason why it would be the same either, you can't tell either way.

What are the typical diving conditions you tested it under? And yes, it will be higher when you are stressed. As I have stated, I have had buddies with a stressed SAC of 40L/min. I tested mine whilst swimming as fast as I can and got 33L/min. My average SAC is 11L/min.

I rarely do any buddy diving, if I do it's because I've been involuntarily hooked up with an instabuddy and I do not plan a reserve for them nor do I change my plan accordingly.

Even if you have no interest in looking out for your buddy, you might want to keep enough air for them, so they don't drown you trying to get your air if they happen to run out one day.

I have not forgotten how to do a bailout plan, as I have said numerous times on this thread I carry a redundant air source which I anticipate will get me safely to the surface should I experience an OOA emergency, and I plan my dives so that I end them with a sufficient reserve.

If you have not forgotten why is it such a big deal for you to do a 2 minute calculation now and redo it? If it was something that took more than a few minutes I could understand you not bothering but given how much time you've spend responding to posts here saying you've forgotten you probably could have done this a dozen times already.

 

[idocsteve]

Even if you have no interest in looking out for your buddy, you might want to keep enough air for them, so they don't drown you trying to get your air if they happen to run out one day.

I just need to be able to out-swim them, and it's in my best interests not to burden myself with heavy redundant dive gear such as a larger pony tank.

If you have not forgotten why is it such a big deal for you to do a 2 minute calculation now and redo it? If it was something that took more than a few minutes I could understand you not bothering but given how much time you've spend responding to posts here saying you've forgotten you probably could have done this a dozen times already.

I already told you. If you want me to do those calculations you gotta take me to dinner. I'm not going to budge on this one.

 

[gcbryan]

He's already said several times he doesn't know how.

 

[Sas]

I just need to be able to out-swim them, and it's in my best interests not to burden myself with heavy redundant dive gear such as a larger pony tank.

Given you don't seem to like diving with people I would imagine you wouldn't be paying them any attention, they'd run out of air and it would probably be too late to swim away.

By the way, I have no problem with you not wanting to take any responsibility for an instabuddy and leave them on their own in the event of an emergency, subject to you actually warning them of this first. Is this part of the predive discussion? If so what kind of reaction do you get from your instabuddies? Just curious about that (no ulteria motive at all in this case, not like how I've been asking you for your gas plans to highlight your lack of knowledge about dive plans).

I already told you. If you want me to do those calculations you gotta take me to dinner. I'm not going to budge on this one.

I'm really not going to budge on saying that if you want your "dive planning" to be taken seriously then you have to actually back this up with those calculations.

I don't take people who can't plan dives out to dinner. Until you post how you work things out, then no dinner for you. No budging on that from this end either.

 

[idocsteve]

I don't take people who can't plan dives out to dinner. Until you post how you work things out, then no dinner for you. No budging on that from this end either.

Ok fine

I calculated 19cf of gas required to bail out from 130 feet, including two minutes at depth to work out any issues, normal ascent rate of 60ft/min, and a 3min safety stop at 15 feet.

That gives sufficient gas in a 19 cf pony bottle.

How about steak? Salad bar would be nice too.

 

[Sas]

Ok fine

I calculated 19cf of gas required to bail out from 130 feet, including two minutes at depth to work out any issues, normal ascent rate of 60ft/min, and a 3min safety stop at 15 feet.

That gives sufficient gas in a 19 cf pony bottle.

How about steak? Salad bar would be nice too.

SAC rate used?

 

[idocsteve]

SAC rate used?

I don't remember

 

[Sas]

I don't remember

No steak for you.

 

[idocsteve]

No steak for you.

That's cold.

:crying2: