Dive shops and training: the disconnect with reality

[Saudi-Diver]

This is a really interesting thread, I have been diving since 1998 trained originally with a really good PADI instructor, taught me to look after myself, did my PADI advanced open water and Rescue. Joined a BSAC club and did further training with them. I have been really lucky. I have learn't at every stage of my diving career, 99.9% of the dives I have done I have learn't something either positive or negative. You have to get out there and grab the experience you want. No dive shop/ dive instructor is going to be able to deliver 100% what you want at some point you have to be responsible for yourself.

 

[Garrobo]

Immediatelly after getting my certification card I realized that I didn't have a clue what I was doing in the water. Two weedends diving in a YMCA pool and a 20 foot quarry made me realize that I needed some further instructions. I had anough brains to rent the gear that I qualified in and didn't buy one piece from the operator. I had a cousin drop dead who was a diver and his widow said to come on over and take what I wanted. Good move. I used this stuff for about a year and then started wanting some new stuff so I bought a lot of useful gear online, mostly from Leisurepro, once I knew what I really needed. Saved a lot of money that way. My first dives after certifying were with a lady instructor in Fort Lauderdal. We spent a few days diving the reefs around Lauderdale and Pompano beach getting familiar with the water, my buoyancy, weighting and safety activities down. Best money I ever spent. I recommend it to everyone.

 

[idocsteve]

I had a cousin drop dead who was a diver and his widow said to come on over and take what I wanted.

You lucky dog.

My cousin looked pretty darn healthy on the last Christmas card. Not that it matters, I don't think he's a Scuba Diver.

 

[gcbryan]

I'll assume that some don't like the word assume.

Regarding cannister lights I never mentioned cannister lights...I specifically said hand held. There are plenty of good non-plastic hand held lights out there. That you don't know about them simply shows that they aren't available in your local dive shop.

Anything that a retractor holds could be better held by most anything else as far as I can tell.

Tank lights of any kind...what's the point? You do have a light in your hand don't you?

Snorkels...just something else to get caught up in something. Good for snorkeling however!

 

[Sas]

The OP's experience is mine too, though I do not agree that it is most diver's. The vast majority of divers don't care about how their gear looks or what it is or the fact that their instructor isn't that good a diver, and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

If you wish to pursue more advanced diving then a lot of the advice and gear one has been sold in the beginning is annoying and often not recommended and therefore becomes useless (the retractors and snorkels and yoke regs and jacket BCs). But people who go on to do advanced diving are uncommon (though overly represented online - if you care a lot about diving then you tend to get involved in such a manner) and I guess difficult for dive shops to spot early to cater to in a different way. The store I did my initial training with strongly pushed me towards gear that was not suitable for my long term goals though given how crappy a diver I was in the beginning they probably didn't take the goals seriously. As soon as it became apparent I was actively pursuing these goals they did a 180 turn and completely changed their tune. Too late by then, their loss now, given how many thousands of dollars I have spent on gear and training since and will spend in the future

So yea, streamlining and removing retractors and snorkels isn't all that relevant to most divers but I do see the point gcbryan is trying to make, but just don't think it applies to most people.

 

[TSandM]

You will go into the dive shop to ask about dive conditions at local dive sites that aren't training dive sites and you will realize that perhaps no one in the dive shop actually dives anywhere other than the training sites and can't therefore answer your questions.

I had to chuckle at this one, because the lead instructor in one of our local shops hasn't ever dived anywhere in Puget Sound except the training sites

But to some degree, there's some growing up that's done in any sport. Four years after I started riding again, I realized the woman I'd paid a lot of money to for lessons didn't really know very much, or ride very well. But when I started with her, I didn't know any better. 16 years later, I'm MUCH pickier about who teaches me riding . . . and five years after getting certified, I know a LOT more about picking a diving instructor than I did when I started. Which is one of the reasons I spend a lot of time here on SB, trying to help new folks get through that painful growing process faster and more cheaply than I did.

 

[idocsteve]

Anything that a retractor holds could be better held by most anything else as far as I can tell.

Really bryan?

How can you tell that?

From where I sit, you can mount a retractor anywhere, it can be clipped to a D ring, it can be put on almost any BCD strap, and it can be added just about anywhere using a sort of "rivet" attachment available with some retractors or screwed in place using a backplate that comes with some retractors.

Once the retractor is in place, items can be clipped in various manners, retractors come in an entire array of various clips in just about every size and shape.

And once the item is clipped to the retractor, it can be locked in place so the retractor acts just like a D ring, but then you have the distinct advantage of being able to use the item without unclipping it if you so desire! So if you're using it and you want to free up your hand, just let go of the piece of gear and - like magic- it retracts right back against your BCD. Not only that but an item that might not necessarily reach inside your pocket if it's clipped to a D ring can be put inside the pocket while still attached to the retractor..such as a dive light! So it's out of sight and not hanging there and you're even more streamlined. If it should happen to fall out of your pocket, it's not going anywhere because it's..um...attached to a retractor.

Sometimes it pays to think outside the box. Advanced technology is available. Those who thumb their noses at it are oftentimes doing themselves a disservice.

 

[cdreamer]

We carry tank lights, (battery operated) but don't usually sell them
unless they are REQUIRED for night diving by various operations and liveaboards.
OK.

 

[Sas]

Really bryan?

How can you tell that?

From where I sit, you can mount a retractor anywhere, it can be clipped to a D ring, it can be put on almost any BCD strap, and it can be added just about anywhere using a sort of "rivet" attachment available with some retractors or screwed in place using a backplate that comes with some retractors.

Once the retractor is in place, items can be clipped in various manners, retractors come in an entire array of various clips in just about every size and shape.

And once the item is clipped to the retractor, it can be locked in place so the retractor acts just like a D ring, but then you have the distinct advantage of being able to use the item without unclipping it if you so desire! So if you're using it and you want to free up your hand, just let go of the piece of gear and - like magic- it retracts right back against your BCD. Not only that but an item that might not necessarily reach inside your pocket if it's clipped to a D ring can be put inside the pocket while still attached to the retractor..such as a dive light! So it's out of sight and not hanging there and you're even more streamlined. If it should happen to fall out of your pocket, it's not going anywhere because it's..um...attached to a retractor.

Sometimes it pays to think outside the box. Advanced technology is available. Those who thumb their noses at it are oftentimes doing themselves a disservice.

Steve, you're doing exactly the same thing you are accusing gcbryan of.

People like different gear and neither should be criticised for it.

I think retractors are completely and utterly useless and I got rid of all of them on my kit and much prefer it that way so I think everything in your last post is completely not applicable to me (or anyone else who doesn't like them). My buddy likes them though and finds a use for them. Different strokes for different folks.

People just need to get over the fact that others use gear they do not like or do not like gear that they use themselves and not take it personal.

 

[BabyDuck]

well, i agree with the op.

no that that's much help to ya, but there it is!