Divemaster & Instructor Qualifications: Your Opinion

[sabbath999]

I was talking to an open water scuba instructor a couple of weeks ago, and I was surprised to find that he had only a few more dives than I have (somewhere in the 160 dive area for him). Yeah, I know the lower limit starts at 100 but I just found it hard to believe that somebody would be teaching diving as an "expert" with little more overall diving experience than myself.

What really surprised me was when I started talking about the dives he has made, he's basically dove local lakes and quarries, and done a couple of trips to Bonnaire. Most of his diving has been done at one local quarry, and nearly all of it is shore diving, and all of it wet.

That made me think back over my dive portfolio, since it is much more extensive than that and I don't personally feel like I would be REMOTELY qualified to take an instructor's course. I've dove in the atlantic, the pacific, the gulf, in lakes, quarries and springs... in caverns, at altitude, from boats and shore, in very warm water and nearly freezing water, dove wet and dry, dove wrecks (no penetration, not trained for that), deep, at night, etc... yet I still feel like, at best, I might be about to the point in my diving career where I could help to mentor a newly minted diver... no way do I feel qualified to even THINK about taking an instructor's course or a Divemaster course with the intent of doing divemaster duties.

I might consider taking a divemaster course, at my current skill level, just to learn the skills taught in the course to help improve my diving... but certainly not to be a professional working divemaster.

I've been in the water with a couple guys (one the instructor, one the DM candidate) who are in divemaster class, who are doing 3 or 4 20 minutes to 20 feet dives per tank just to get in their 60 dive minimum to qualify the guy as a DM.

They were doing a surface interval next to where we were gearing up, and I heard the instructor ask the guy how many more dives he needed to reach 60... the guy responded only one more. The instructor said "Good, because I hate this local diving cold water ****"

Ummm, yeah, that's the guy I want teaching me, for sure.

Anyway, I was wondering what you guys think the minimum ACTUAL DIVING EXPERIENCE should be for an instructor and DM. Do instructors need to have experience in a wide range of types of diving, or is it OK that they just know how to teach the basics... is that all that is required for producing students who can actually dive? What about DM's, do they need to actually have a range of diving experience to be good at their jobs, or do they just need to know the LOCAL conditions they are working with people in?

Here's my take on it. When I looked into getting my wife certified (I couldn't even swim at the time, I became a diver after she was certified) I shopped around for the person I thought would be the best instructor, and interviewed several before I choose the person I did. My priorities at the time was finding somebody who was "safety first", taught well above the minimum standards, and who had a lot of experience teaching students and who had a diverse diving background. The place I ended up with was an old-school dive shop where the instructor and his teaching DM were both cave divers with 20+ years of experience, who had taught thousands of students and who were extremely safety oriented. Turns out I made an excellent choice.

I put this in the basic scuba thread because a lot of new divers or people who are considering getting trained read this thread and not the instructor specific ones. Also, I am interested in response from the general diving public.

OK, people, what say you?

 

[Walter]

I might consider taking a divemaster course, at my current skill level, just to learn the skills taught in the course to help improve my diving

If that's your motivation, don't bother. Few DM courses teach skills beyond what you should learn in your entry level class.

Generally, the requirements to become an instructor are not high enough, in my opinion. I would like to see an internship working on a dive boat required. I would like to see the number of dives required increased. I would like to see 20 - 30 minute dives within 20 minutes of a previous dive not count toward the total. I would like to see dives in current, dives in rough seas, dives in fresh water, dives in salt water, and a minimum of 50 dives to 80 feet or deeper required. It's not going to happen, but I'd like to see it.

 

[netmage]

Ya see - part of the 'industrialization of diving' is that making instructors is part of the business model - not just 'making divers'....

 

[tomfcrist]

How many dives do you think they should have? Is it the Quantity or the Quality? I know a few instructors that are in the 100-300 dive range that are great instructors, and i know a few in the 1000 range that dont know enough about diving to be a solid DM...... that being said, an instructor with 100 dives can easily have the demonstration quality skills, and the technical knowledge to teach OW classes.

 

[Stu S.]

The number of dives is probably only a moderate indicator of an instructor's ability. It compares to hours logged for a pilot or captain of a vessel. How would you quantify the ability of an instrutor to effectively teach? School systems are still trying to figure that one out.

Probably the number of years actively teaching is the best indicator. That shows the instructor likes it enough to stick with it, and the public has supported the instructor.

 

[scarefaceDM]

This is a loaded topic...How much does not mean, nor does it qualify you to teach. Having x number of dives to attain a minimum requirement is BS.

It takes more than having a quantity of dives to become A: Divemaster and B: an instructor.

There are many many instructors/divemasters out in the blue that should not be teaching/assisting.

And there are many many that are excellent teachers and divemasters. I say TEACHERS because the word instructors is a joke. Anyone can read a manual and dictate to someone what to do...it takes someone that will break the manual down and teach the knowledge not dictate it. It is a joke because they are (divemasters-Instructors) shot-gunned into it. Not getting the right long term training they need to be great teachers/Divemasters. You have to look at the whole and not the part.

It goes like this. The dive industry as I see it, pumps a candidate into a program and shoots your right through to the instructor phase in less than a month. ( cramming)
Now how can one become a great teacher by only getting a months worth of training to become said instructor? Then to only be paid peanuts to train, instruct - teach someone to scuba?

Really...a candidate should look long and hard into the commitment that is needed to be a great teacher/instructor or Divemaster. It takes alot more personal dive training/knowledge to become an instructor and or divemaster.

But that is my opinion of course.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

You know, I think the standards are not just low, but also too easily shorted and danced around. Like these zero to hero courses that complete start to finish in just a few weeks. I took years to get to get to instructor. And I was lucky enough to have a true pain in the ass IT who made sure we were absolutely spot on for every minute thing. She was a complete pain. And worth every moment of it. We took forever on every tiny thing and process, problem solving, scenarios. I also DM'd for over a year and ran the boats, as sell as having to DM every class and specialty offered. More than once.....
How much real training do some of these folks get, over just checking off completion as opposed to mastery? It's not their fault, but they should want more. New students deserve more.

While others are shortening to a 2 day whirlwind course, my hubby and I are lengthening our course even more.

 

[jstamets]

What exactly do you feel you are lacking in experience that would translate into an instructional risk for a new diver? A diver needs experience to gain a certain level of proficiency to become an instructor, to be sure, but for each person the experience required is most likely different. Rather than number of dives, it should really be a matter of demonstrable skills. If an instructor can turn out safe divers, then he or she has adequate experience. As for what those skills are or how to measure them, that is a different discussion - one that would require popcorn...

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

What exactly do you feel you are lacking in experience that would translate into an instructional risk for a new diver? A diver needs experience to gain a certain level of proficiency to become an instructor, to be sure, but for each person the experience required is most likely different. Rather than number of dives, it should really be a matter of demonstrable skills. If an instructor can turn out safe divers, then he or she has adequate experience.

No. It is much more than demonstrable skills. Anyone can practice a skill and demonstrate it. It takes much more to solve new learners' mistakes, issues, and fears.
Also, I have had terrible conditions, no vis, and new students who were calm and happy. After the dive they said in the debriefing that they would have been really freaked out, but I was so calm and serene. You Must be able to handle yourself calmly in ALL situations to really focus on others. This takes training and experience. This calmness in all situations only comes with experience - lots of it in all types of dive conditions.

 

[jstamets]

No. It is much more than demonstrable skills. Anyone can practice a skill and demonstrate it. It takes much more to solve new learners' mistakes, issues, and fears.
Also, I have had terrible conditions, no vis, and new students who were calm and happy. After the dive they said in the debriefing that they would have been really freaked out, but I was so calm and serene. You Must be able to handle yourself calmly in ALL situations to really focus on others. This takes training and experience. This calmness in all situations only comes with experience - lots of it in all types of dive conditions.

Ah, yes - Poor choice of words on my part - instead of skills I should have phrased it demonstrable traits that make a good instructor, some of which you pointed out. I was not referring to the rote skills of a scuba class (clear mask, etc). Sorry for the confusion. I guess another way of saying it is that there are traits to good instructors that may be gained by individuals at different rates. If a person is capable of demonstrating that largely undefined (hence the ending of my previous post) set of traits, then they are ready to teach.
Does that make more sense?