Diver Attrition

[Divin'Papaw]

Check-out dives should be fun and should not be rushed. I see that a lot, the instructors want to get done and get home or get these students finished and move on to the next set that have to be done today. I like to keep my groups small and plan enough time in the dive day for some socializing. Like some others here said, that's a big part of the dive experience. I like to have other certified divers around my group even when they are not actually diving with us. That shows my students that people do dive the local sites for fun and gives them a chance to meet potential buddies as well.
Ber :lilbunny:

I think this is a very important point. Many of the OW courses I've observed while at quarries have a very rushed "let's get this done and get home" feel to them.

In contrast, I was able to observe Ber and some of her students at the last GLWC M&G. I'm not sure if it was an OW class, AOW class or a combination. Regardless, I was very impressed with the time she took with the students, the laid back non-rushed feel to what I witnessed and to the general tone which communicated that even quarry diving is fun. And that was in late April when the temps were 42-50!

Both a kudo to Ber and an editorial comment that, in my mind, this is the tone a class should set. Not the typical "yea, I know quarry diving sucks but lets get this done and go home so that everyone can go dive in Florida" tone most classes that I've seen have.

IMO most scuba instructors don't even look like they enjoy diving! That's a problem.

 

[joeabroad]

Again -- thanks for the encouragement. I have learned a lot from the experienced folks on this board and am always amazed at how much information and concern is shown by the community here.

Tim-I absolutely hear you. Last June, on the first really stinky hot day of that year, I did a shore dive in Marshfield, south of Boston. By the time I was suited up and dragging my ton of gear and weight to the water I really thought I was going to have a heat stroke. I was never so happy to get into 50 degree water in my life.

The immediate outcome--I swore off New England shore dives. I don't need the aggravation, I decided. There are plenty of good boat ops around Boston. It is a more expensive way to do it, but I'll gladly pay the money not to torture myself. It's certainly kept me in the game. (I should mention that I also had minor foot surgery last summer, and didn't want to risk further injury on the rocks--much safer, in my opinion, to fall out of a boat.)

Reading these posts, I'm reminded of the day the LDS called me to say my certification card had arrived. I'd just finished great OW dives in Mexico, and ran right to the shop to pick it up. When the guy at the LDS went through his box to find my card, I commented on how many cards were in there, and asked how many people had trained lately. He explained that the vast majority of cards in his box had been there for months, and even longer. Evidently, a large percentage of people who complete certification never even bother to pick up their cards.

 

[TimK]

When we were working on a standards rewrite for one of the major agencies we tried to insert a clause requiring that there be, at a minimum, one confined water session (prior to going to open water) in the same full gear that would be used in open water. This recommendation was rejected by the agency as “non-competitive” since it would make their courses more expensive.

One of my many comments to my wife, the instructors and the dive shop was the very same -- a pool session with full gear prior to the dive to get weighting close -- without killing someone. I also put that in my PADI "how was our course/instruction" survey. As for cost, what is the price of having someone getting heatstroke or worse on you and the ensuing lawsuit verses one more pool session? Also, there were 10-12 students there with 2 instructors which is not a bad ratio. However, both instructors ended up suited up in the water telling us "to take your time". There were several certified divers there that tried to help out but there was only so much the two of them could do. Please keep pushing for the pool checkout prior to the dive. I can assure everyone on this thread that I wasn't the only one uncomfortable that day.

 

[labaum]

I agree with those who say it's all about the local LDS and OW dive instructor.
I was certified in Raleigh, NC and it was all done in a college pool and quarry.
Our certification dives were in a quarry where we were told to descend and meet up at the yellow school bus someone had sank.
I joke that to this day, some ten years later and now living and diving in South Florida, I've still never found that bus.
However, the LDS and instructors (there was a second instructor working on his certification) made the
whole process--class, pool work, certification dives, initial equipment rentals, subsequent purchases,
dive trips, overall LDS professionalism and support--the perfect mix of serious instruction and social sport.
Lord knows Raleigh is not the dive capital of the world and it would have been easy to complain about the inconveniences, murky, cold quarry and the expense of the new gear.
However, the LDS and his crew made this an exciting sport, something you wanted to pursue, improve, and advance.
I've taken additional courses since (not with the Raleigh LDS since I've moved away) and many of the classes have been through sloppy LDS with instructors who "could not have cared less".
Had that been my first experience I too would have been one of those folks who take the class, buy the gear, and never go back.

 

[divekraz]

My wife and I were certified in 1985 in Palm Beach fl. and still dive so 100%, but that's not a fair percentage. My course was great and the ow tests were great, but the next day we we're on a different dive boat for our first dive. I told the dm it was our very first dive and they still had us do a 80' wreck dive with a strong current. The dm did tie a line to the wreck but had the entire group drop in the water to free fall and drift into the wreck. I couldn't clear my ears fast enough and by the time I was 30' down I was past the wreck and couldn't swim against the current. By the time I got to the surface I was 600' down from the boat and someone luckily was looking in my direction and saw me. I made them put me on the line and went down by hand as I was worried if I didn't go down then I never would. So the point is, I can understand a small retention of divers based on my early dive experience.

 

[ArcticDiver]

Tim:

Good to read your post that you are going to stick with it. My experience is that you won't regret it.

When I did my AOW my original instructor who was really a compentent, nice person had to leave. His replacement was another matter all together. He introduced himself as The ScubaNazi. At first I thought it was a joke. It wasn't. That experience almost made me drop out.

I'm glad I stuck with it because I've met some of the nicest, most fun people on the planet since then. I've had some very fine instructors; from whom I've learned a great deal. Sure some have not been perfect. But which of us is?

There are many adventures still to experience. There are so many places yet to go. So many people yet to meet. Makes me thankful and hopeful.

 

[Thalassamania]

Kinda makes one wonder about all the stats that try to tell us diving is safer than bowling.........

That's simply not true.

 

[SNorman]

Well, this is a long thread but I'll pipe in. Short answer - people are lazy. It's as simple as that.

I just took my OW class and I had SEVEN friends who were going to take it with me. FIVE of them were "for sure". They all bailed because of stupid reasons. One guy bet me money I would never go diving again after the class. His reason for not taking the class was he would never go again afterwards. Well, I proved him wrong last weekend

Look at how many people get gym memberships or buy workout equipment, then never use them or bail after a few months. Again, a very few people are dedicated enough to stick with it.

 

[BKP]

Bottom line... it's a need for commitment sport:

1- Personal gear is *not* cheap (and we love our new gadgets)...
2- The stuff takes up room, and is *not* easy to lug around, not to mention requires service/maintainence...
3- Even a trip to the quarry is a minimum entry fee, fills, BBQ, (and if you have an S.O., kids, or others... double, triple, etc.), and that's for 1-1/2 hours bottom time, max (assuming two dives)...
4- An OW warm water trip? Flights, charters, hotels, etc... Mondo $$$.
5- A single 10-cent part can abort a dive...
6- Dealing with weather, bad viz, sea-sickness...
7- Inherent dangers of diving... DCS, predators, narcosis, O2 toxicity, etc...

... and I wouldn't give it up for the world...

 

[JungleJoe]

Well, when I got cert'd OW, then AOW back in 81, it was a loooooong process, 1-2 nights a week, 4 pool dives for OW, before the open water ones.

Now everyone wants the quickie 1 weekend course....

Diving is a skill, not something you can p/u in a weekend, it takes practice to get comfortable.

Dive shops that teach the old way.... longer courses, I'd bet have better retention, but guess what... those shops are dying like flies. People nowadays don't have the TIME to commit do doing the class right. they want it NOW, QUICK, blah blah blah....

Many years later, I still dive, try to get out at least every weekend, winter/summer it does not matter, if there's ice and it's thick enuf, we cut a hole and go.

I think alot of it has to do with the quickie courses now, and the shops pushing trips....

In my opinion, someone who does a weekend cert, no matter how good the instructor is, is not going to get the same level of comfort and knowledge as someone who went though a month of classes at least 1 night a week for several hours at a crack.

Times change, PADI don't care, they just want the money, of course that is why you sign a waiver....

Sigh....

Hard core divers are still out there, still being created, it's getting them fresh from their "training" and into a group of experienced divers and showing them the ropes, that is what keeps them going and wanting to dive more.

Us more experienced divers should make more effort to find new divers and take them under our wing. There's more to diving that ocean and 100ft+ vis... quarry's and lakes can be just as fun, even though they are colder and vis sucks... but hey, I have at least over 1k dives now, never dove in the ocean.... (I will tho someday).... but I can tell ya this. With a good group of friends and divers, we have alot of fun. Bottle hunting etc.. Wrecks on the great lakes etc.

there's my 2 cents