"diver competence" as discussed in this month's "Dive Training" magazine

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

birdwrasse

Contributor
Messages
671
Reaction score
18
A great discussion starts on page 77 of this month's Dive Trainging magazine. So much so, I am going to start discussing it with my students when I talk about continuing education. As others in the dive industry can atest to, there is a large drop-out rate of newly certified divers -- some say the statistic is high as 80%. With that said, I would strongly suggest that new divers read it and fairly new divers read it to reinforce the need to keep diving, keep learning and own your own equipment...

I've been diving since 2006 and have regularly continued my education. Even though I don't do much technical diving any more, the skills I've learned have changed the way I see scuba diving. Dive planning, the foundation of all diving and the basis for safe diving practices, cannot be overlooked. As another open water certification approaches for the soon to be newly certified, I want to wish all, safe dives and lots of fun.

For those that knew me from those early days, I want to thank you for the continued support. Please remember the divers that are no longer with us and help others to become great divers! If there is anyone out there that has been apprensive or reluctant about diving, just know that it gets easier, becomes more fun and that your instructors want you to succeed.

Thanks go to my instructors for their insight, trust, and vigilence. Scuba diving has changed my life so much. I've seen so much and I appreciate the little things ever more...

Cheers,



--c
 
Maybe the high dropout rate is due to the fact that the training standards have declined over the years and students aren't getting the same quality education they did in the past. This then makes for uncomfortable new divers. What I see now is that many shops push divers through OW in a weekend. Not a lot of time or dives to get a basic comfort level. Add to that the poor economy. When the new diver finds out just how expensive travel etc. is they drop out.
 
Maybe the high dropout rate is due to the fact that the training standards have declined over the years and students aren't getting the same quality education they did in the past.

I don't see that training standards have declined over the years. Which standards exactly are you mentioning... and how have they declined?

I did the PADI OW course more 20 years ago, and it comprised the same skills, drills and number of modules (theory/confined/open water) that it does today.

This then makes for uncomfortable new divers.

Most divers are uncomfortable when new. It takes some time to ingrain skills, develop instinctive muscle memory and become truly proficient with buoyancy etc. Thus, there is....and always has been.... an expectation that divers need to maintain practice after qualification - allowing experience to 'polish' the basic skill-set they receive on entry-level training. That's not a new phenomenon - it's always been that way.

What I see now is that many shops push divers through OW in a weekend.

Given the course syllabus, that's nothing shocking. A few modules of theory, which can be self-studied, 5 short modules in a pool - just a handful of skills on each module... and 4 open water dives. It is a matter of training hours. Does it matter whether those training hours are completed in 2 working days, or artificially spread over a longer period?

A ten-day open water course, wouldn't expose the student to any more training - it'd just be the same training hours diluted over more days.

Two 8-hour days? Four 4-hour days? Eight 2-hour days?

Is that really a basis for making a case on course standard decline? I think not.

Again, it's always been that way. Differences in course structuring tend to be regional, not historical. In locations where time isn't a factor (i.e. student learns at home, one session per week over multiple weeks) then a longer course is typical... longer in duration, but not in training hours. In holiday locations, where people have more free time to devote to training, then shorter courses are typical... shorter in duration, but not in training hours.

Not a lot of time or dives to get a basic comfort level.

Never has been... nothing new.

From my experience, it takes ~20 dives for a novice diver to establish a real sense of comfort in scuba. The emphasis, now as always, has been on post-qualification experience to develop that comfort. Outside of scientific, military or commercial diving, I don't believe there has ever been an entry-level scuba course that's provided 20 open water dives before qualification...

Add to that the poor economy. When the new diver finds out just how expensive travel etc. is they drop out.

I don't see how people wouldn't know "how expensive travel etc. is..." before enrolling on a scuba course. That's fairly generic knowledge, available to the whole population. Most divers learn scuba whilst on vacation - so that tends to illustrate that they already know the costs of travel :wink:


As Stunaep said in the original post; divers need to be aware that continued education is vital for developing increased comfort and enjoyment - to make scuba an activity they can really enjoy. The solution isn't to extend the parameters of entry-level training - that'd simply inflate the front-end costs (both time and commitment) and serve to deter more people from investigating scuba diving.

I've not seen any statistics about qualified diver 'drop-out'. IF such statistics existed, then I think there's a fairly rational explanation for rising drop-out rates. That explanation is, quite simply, that there is an increasing number of divers qualifying per year. Of those, a percentage won't actively continue with the hobby. They won't "get the bug".

The availability of cheap, accessible training, shifts activity exposure from a small handful of 'dedicated' divers, towards a wider spectrum of people who are just happy to 'give it a try'.

Back in the "old days" (whenever that mystical time was), diving was inaccessible to most - without a proliferation of agencies, training centers and instructors. It wasn't accessible to a 'mass market'. If someone was passionately interested in scuba, then they had to make considerable effort and commitment at the outset to source and achieve qualification. That tended to ensure that only 'committed and determined' people.... serious divers... got qualified. Having made that effort and commitment, it is reasonable that they would be far less likely to drop-out.

With a proliferation of scuba training, just about everyone has some exposure to the availability of scuba courses. That training is quick, cheap and relatively easy - demanding little commitment or investment. Consequently, far more people will engage in the training speculatively or even as a one-off experience.

As the saying goes... "easy come - easy go".

I don't think it's a bad thing. More people have exposure to scuba diving, the underwater world and environmental issues etc. Many of those don't develop a passion for it and drift away. Some of them get smitten and, to varying degrees and frequency, make the activity a part of their life.

Making scuba courses longer, or more intense - demanding more commitment from divers at the outset, will lower drop-out rates - because less people would take training at all. That accomplishes no beneficial gain - except to further a clique of 'exclusivity' amongst divers, which is a bad thing IMHO.
 
Does it matter whether those training hours are completed in 2 working days, or artificially spread over a longer period?

I think it does, and here is why. To begin with, most people learn poorly when they are tired. Long days are counterproductive in that respect.

Second, spacing out the diving instructional activities permits the students some reflection, which can result in very good questions that aid understanding.

Third, it has been my own personal experience in taking lessons in a number of different physical activities, that the subconscious mind works at the skills between training sessions (just as visualization can aid learning) and progress is made even without actual practice.

Our experience in doing private classes where all the same skills are done, but the class is condensed because of small numbers, is that the students simply don't end up as good as the ones that do the larger classes, with less individual attention from the instructor but more total in-water and reflection time.
 
I think it does, and here is why. To begin with, most people learn poorly when they are tired. Long days are counterproductive in that respect.

Lynne, I get what you are saying, but I don't see how two '9-to-5' days is especially tiring for the student.

I'm sure you worked/studied/interned much more intensively than that during your medical training...and still (obviously) managed to learn what was necessary.

Yes, I appreciate there are benefits to lower-intensity training, but I don't think that some moderate intensity teaching can be blamed for weak student learning. Not at all....

Second, spacing out the diving instructional activities permits the students some reflection, which can result in very good questions that aid understanding.

I think there are pros and cons to both approaches. I initially learned on a 'weekly session' course - one night a week over 10 weeks. I had plenty of time for reflection... but also plenty of time to forget stuff and lose 'fluidity' between sessions. I actually found that a draw-back. The first half of each subsequent session was spent 'remembering' what we did the previous week. That wasn't progressive, neither did it contribute towards more ingrained skills.

I prefer more intensive training - it suits me better.

A shorter, more intensive course doesn't permit 'skill-fade' between components. When one aspect is mastered, the student progresses to the next. There is no need for superfluous remedial work, the need for which is caused by stagnancy in training flow.

Pros and cons to both - but neither permit a grossly superior end-state IMHO. If you do X training, you'll result in Y outcome. That outcome, for a given training syllabus will be generally consistent, regardless of course intensity.

Some individuals may have a learning preference towards intensive or relaxed training - that's worth thinking about when booking a course. Neither approach is superior though IMHO - it's a personal thing.

The issue, at the root of this thread - is what happens after a course.

Regardless of whether a student chooses the optimum 'course intensity' for their learning style and requirements - they'll only achieve Y outcome from a finite and minimal training structure. There is NO WAY that the components of the Open Water course can achieve any real depth of comfort or ingrained skill within its component limitations.

Post-qualification development/practice/experience has to occur for comfort, fluidity and autonomic skill to be achieved.

Third, it has been my own personal experience in taking lessons in a number of different physical activities, that the subconscious mind works at the skills between training sessions (just as visualization can aid learning) and progress is made even without actual practice.

I agree with this - it has been my personal experience (and observation) also. Students improve considerably overnight.

Whilst that is a factor, I don't think it offers sufficient benefit to justify mandating that courses should be categorically extended. I don't think that it'd make any significant difference on 'diver retention', nor on the final performance of a course graduate.

If a diver achieves course standards, then such realizations are just as beneficial post-qualification.

The CRITICAL ASPECT is that divers keep diving after being certified... in recognition that comfort and competence are a product of experience and application.

Anyone who walks out of an OW course expecting to be a 'finished product'... as good as they can be... is deluded. Sadly, I think this is actually a failing of the scuba industry - because we are not pro-active in making that clear.

Better 'expectation management' could be provided by dive pros.

However, whether that'd influence diver retention or not is a different matter. We live in a 'quick fix' and 'instant reward' culture... where the principle of 'needing to work for something over time' seems to be overlooked.

Some people do a ultra-basic 4-dive Open Water course and then get discouraged because they are not 'expert' in the activity. That's a pattern to be witnessed in every aspect of life.... not just diving.
 
I think the reason alot of divers drop out or cease to continue diving has a lot to do with where they are located and what type of diving is available close to them. It can be difficult if you live where I do, to get hooked up with other divers, schedule a boat trip that lines up with the weather God's and doesn't get cancelled as there is no shore diving here in Virginia Beach. Many of the better dive sites are two hours each way by boat and the viz here is not optimal. I still dive a good bit, but find myself driving to N.C. for a weekend to get some good diving in.
 
Better 'expectation management' could be provided by dive pros.

However, whether that'd influence diver retention or not is a different matter. We live in a 'quick fix' and 'instant reward' culture... where the principle of 'needing to work for something over time' seems to be overlooked.

Some people do a ultra-basic 4-dive Open Water course and then get discouraged because they are not 'expert' in the activity. That's a pattern to be witnessed in every aspect of life.... not just diving.

I recall my Instructor telling us that AOW was really, in her opinion, "OW II". I went right into AOW because of that statement and because I didn't know anyone to go diving with. It also gave me some more dives while I started to network with other divers. I then did what a lot of other divers do. I booked my own trip to Grand Cayman. My dive shop at the time told me I was going to just about die in the backplate/wing setup I had. I went that route in an effort to figure out this whole trim/buoyancy thing that I didn't learn in OW/AOW. Looking back I realize there is just not enough time to help everyone sort that stuff out. Anyway I jumped in on my first dive and popped up straight in the water and immediately realized the whole "backplate will push you forward in the water" was a crock. My first dive didn't last that long as I was still nervous and really hooved up the air. But I was determined to get things right. I met some really decent divers on that trip that helped me drop quite a bit of lead (I was used to cold water) and get squared away. After about the 3rd dive I was in heaven, A lot lighter, trimmmed out fairly well and doing the same profiles as everyone else. My air consumption improved dramatically. That trip was like AOW II bootcamp and my learning curve shot up bigtime.
I agree "expectation management" is key. You don't know what you don't know.
 
What are the historical dropout / attrition rates vs. now?
 
So many divers get certified bc of a specific trip they are taking. They dive and love it but then they get home and continuing to dive isn't that easy or as desirable as the dream vacation they just took so they don't go. Later they get the bug again but don't feel comfortable. I don't think it has much to do with training.

Diving isn't for everyone. Many are interested but it takes time, resources, and money to maintain your comfort and efficiency. Often its the resources that gets ppl. I dive a lot bc I have a lakehouse on Greers Ferry but many don't find a cold dingy lake as appealing as the warm clear Caribbean! I'm guess I'm weird bcI love it!
 
I'd have to disagree with DevonDiver on the decline in training standards. The current OW certified diver coming out of most programs is poorly equipped to dive compared to the OW student who trained with agencies like L.A. County back in the 60s as I did. Back then the training period was over three weeks with frequent night and weekend meetings for classroom, pool and ocean sessions. Skills were not simply demonstrated successfully once or twice, but repetitively. Instructors did such "nasty" unexpected things as pull your mask off your face or turn your air off. During that three week period, most of what is currently covered in OW, AOW and Rescue was presented and the student was certified to dive to a depth of 130 feet upon achieving "OW" certification. MAJOR difference in training level.

I think many OW certified divers do so in preparation for a trip to what they know to be a good dive destination, dive there and then don't continue their diving upon returning home. Landlocked divers are faced with diving lakes and quarries which may not be rewarding enough dive experiences to motivate them to continue. And, of course, some realize that the minimal training they have received in OW class is not sufficient to give them a sense of confidence to continue diving. Equipment and travel cost certainly can impact the frequency of one's diving. For others, diving is not an "extreme" activity and they go off to sky diving or some other insanity!
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom