EastEndDiver
Contributor
I agree with DrBill ,I was trained the same way in the 70's.
"diver competence" as discussed in this month's "Dive Training" magazine
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DevonDiver
N/A
I couldn't possible comment on that degree of 'historical' training
I don't see a difference in training - merely a modularization of syllabus.
Any student can still receive that training, if prepared to commit time and money to bundle modular courses together...
Again... it boils down to expectation management. One shouldn't expect a 4-dive OW diver to have comparable proficiency to a 3-week L.A.County diver of the 1960's. One might expect a 14+dive Rescue diver to be more comparable to that standard...
The more experience divers don't mentor the new divers. As more experience divers we need to take new diver on easy dives first and build up their confidence with to more challenging dive and not complain about how bad of a diver they are.
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I think the biggest difference was that back in the old days it took more than 100 dives and a regurgitation of what's in the agency materials to become a dive instructor ... you actually had to know how to dive first.
Dive instructors today may be (and often are) people who were in OW class a few months ago, and have done little diving outside of the classes it took to become an instructor. They're trying to teach people something they don't themselves really understand.
And that, I think, is probably the biggest difference between dive instruction "back then" and dive instruction today ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Dive instructors today may be (and often are) people who were in OW class a few months ago, and have done little diving outside of the classes it took to become an instructor. They're trying to teach people something they don't themselves really understand.
And that, I think, is probably the biggest difference between dive instruction "back then" and dive instruction today ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
How many times has this issue been raised and how often do we hear the same things? And yet do we ever get more real information? Nope.
Anyway -- here is a link to the OP's referenced article:
July 2012 ? Volume 22 Number 7
As I've written before, and I'm assuming I'll write again, I believe Devon Diver and Dr. Bill are both correct in their statements regarding diver training -- it is less than before, it is similar to before -- but it is also greater than "the good old days." Let's face it -- IT IS DIFFERENT today than it was "back in the good old days."
Dr. Bill -- I didn't go through the LA County program but I'm guessing my 16 week university program, in 1966, was similar. We spent a LOT of time working on our basic skills -- but guess what, that was all there was.
OK, Dr. Bill, what didn't you learn in the LA County program (nor did I learn in my university program)?
a. How to deploy an alternate air source and why it is beneficial.
b. How to use a BCD and why it is beneficial.
c. How to use a dive computer and why it is beneficial.
d. How to use a dry suit and why it may be beneficial in cold water.
These are a few of the items you and I didn't learn "back in the good old days" but that students today DO learn -- and how they make diving safer and, quite frankly, easier.
I continue to find this discussion somewhat amusing, especially from the "good old days" people. I was there and just like my grandfather was fond of saying, "Good old days? Hell, there weren't any good old days!" Or as Carly Simon says, "These are the good old days."
Anyway -- here is a link to the OP's referenced article:
July 2012 ? Volume 22 Number 7
As I've written before, and I'm assuming I'll write again, I believe Devon Diver and Dr. Bill are both correct in their statements regarding diver training -- it is less than before, it is similar to before -- but it is also greater than "the good old days." Let's face it -- IT IS DIFFERENT today than it was "back in the good old days."
Dr. Bill -- I didn't go through the LA County program but I'm guessing my 16 week university program, in 1966, was similar. We spent a LOT of time working on our basic skills -- but guess what, that was all there was.
OK, Dr. Bill, what didn't you learn in the LA County program (nor did I learn in my university program)?
a. How to deploy an alternate air source and why it is beneficial.
b. How to use a BCD and why it is beneficial.
c. How to use a dive computer and why it is beneficial.
d. How to use a dry suit and why it may be beneficial in cold water.
These are a few of the items you and I didn't learn "back in the good old days" but that students today DO learn -- and how they make diving safer and, quite frankly, easier.
I continue to find this discussion somewhat amusing, especially from the "good old days" people. I was there and just like my grandfather was fond of saying, "Good old days? Hell, there weren't any good old days!" Or as Carly Simon says, "These are the good old days."
I've seen Instructors and Dive Master with one deep dive and one night dive to under their belt and they are out their supervising divers.
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What they learned back then that you don't learn (or teach) today ...
a. Buddy breathing ... we use alternate air sources today. Back then they didn't have those, so they taught an alternate method to achieve the same thing.
B. Non-scuba water skills ... i.e. swimming. Back then they didn't have BCDs ... so you were taught how to use breathing and basic in-water skills to control your buoyancy.
c. Dive planning with tables ... back then they didn't have computers (hell, most folks didn't even have them in 2001, when I learned how to dive) ... so they taught you an alternate method to achieve the same thing.
d. Drysuits? Peter ... the vast majority of the diving world will still never even see one, much less use one.
For the most part, the differences you point out are less about diving skill than they are the application of developing technology, and the adaptations to skills and methods because that technology is available. What's missing today that was an inherent part of dive training in programs like LA County ... and even the YMCA program I took not that long ago ... is the focus on in-water comfort. Many of today's new divers come out of OW class acting like they're afraid of it. Whatever the merits of today's training, not making in-water comfort a requirement prior to certification inhibits any measure of "competence" by other means. What you know is only one part of effective training ... the other is how well you can apply what you know ... and that, to my concern, is the true measure of competence.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
---------- Post Merged at 08:49 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:48 AM ----------
This is no kidding ... we had a local instructor here not too long ago who couldn't even put her own fins on ... she had to have her students help her with them. Apparently, dressing yourself isn't something that's evaluated at the instructor level ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
I think Mr. Brylske's analysis is very accurate. No certification will guarantee you are a competent diver, if you don't dive. No class, however rigorous, will keep you good, if you only get in the water a couple of times a year. Unfortunately, there is no currency requirement, and since the gross mechanics of executing a dive are simple enough that even rusty people can usually manage it, there isn't a lot of motivation for the diver himself to spend the money and time getting retrained before each yearly trip.
I live in landlocked Colorado, a state that that I have been told for decades is home to more divers per capita than almost any other state in the union. The number of full time dive shops in the Denver area is mind boggling when you consider that absolute lack of good diving locations nearby. When I ask students why they are interested in diving, the most common answer by far is that they are planning a trip to an area that has diving, and they decided to give it a shot. When I teach a refresher course and ask about the dive history, the most common response is that they got certified for a vacation some time ago (I think my record is about 25 years) and they were finally going to go on such a vacation again.
I was just such a vacation diver once. My wife and I decided to take a trip to a place that offered diving, and since I cannot abide sitting on a beach for more than a few minutes, I decided to get certified so I could dive a couple of days. We decided to commit to taking such a trip every other year. That was my plan--two or three days of diving every other year. When I realized how much fun I was having, that plan went out the window.
In many cases diving a half century ago demanded a tremendous commitment of time and money to get certified. If I had to make that kind of initial investment for certification, I probably would not be certified today, and neither would the majority of people I have certified as an instructor myself. People who are willing to make such a commitment will continue to dive, but that does not mean there will be more divers, since people who are not willing to commit that much up front may still be converted once they taste it, just as I was.
On the other hand, diving a half century ago did not always require that kind of a commitment. When I was a child, I used to take an annual vacation to visit relatives living on the Jersey shore. My older cousin was a diver. I vividly remember him entering the surf wearing his wet suit and carrying a spear gun. I recently visited him and asked him about the training and certification he received. He said he had bought all his gear at a nearby sporting goods shop. The shop had given him some lessons (not many) on how it was used, and he had gone off on his own with that equipment. He was not certified by any agency. And so a half century ago he got far less training than anyone does today--and, BTW, once he went off to college, he never dived again, even though he spent the next half century living next to the ocean.
I was just such a vacation diver once. My wife and I decided to take a trip to a place that offered diving, and since I cannot abide sitting on a beach for more than a few minutes, I decided to get certified so I could dive a couple of days. We decided to commit to taking such a trip every other year. That was my plan--two or three days of diving every other year. When I realized how much fun I was having, that plan went out the window.
In many cases diving a half century ago demanded a tremendous commitment of time and money to get certified. If I had to make that kind of initial investment for certification, I probably would not be certified today, and neither would the majority of people I have certified as an instructor myself. People who are willing to make such a commitment will continue to dive, but that does not mean there will be more divers, since people who are not willing to commit that much up front may still be converted once they taste it, just as I was.
On the other hand, diving a half century ago did not always require that kind of a commitment. When I was a child, I used to take an annual vacation to visit relatives living on the Jersey shore. My older cousin was a diver. I vividly remember him entering the surf wearing his wet suit and carrying a spear gun. I recently visited him and asked him about the training and certification he received. He said he had bought all his gear at a nearby sporting goods shop. The shop had given him some lessons (not many) on how it was used, and he had gone off on his own with that equipment. He was not certified by any agency. And so a half century ago he got far less training than anyone does today--and, BTW, once he went off to college, he never dived again, even though he spent the next half century living next to the ocean.
MADiveGirl
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I am a new diver and can see how it is SO very easy to drop off the scene if you aren't truly committed to it. I got certified because a very good friend is an extremely well trained and active diver, and he encouraged me as a fun thing we could do together. I shrugged and said "what the heck, I'll do it" signed up for an OW class, studied my academic materials VERY seriously, did my pool time and got certified on the trip we signed up for together. The original plan was that I'd dive with him regularly going forward, and due to work/family/life, that simply hasn't happened. BUT, from that first day I was determined to be a diver so I dug around and found a local instructor who is now my regular dive buddy, and I'm diving every weekend that weather allows. To make this possible, in addition to all the "standard" equipment I bought right away, I also bought a dry suit, given I live in New England and the water is wicked cold.
It would have been SO VERY EASY to just keep waiting for my original buddy and I to "find the time" to dive together, leaving me with no dives after my Feb cert trip. I had to go out on a limb to find a local instructor, look for a shop I clicked with on my own (buddy lives in another state), and just commit to this activity, knowing NO ONE in my area who dove. I was very determined to NOT be a vacation diver (i.e., 1x/year at best) - but it took a lot of money and some nerve on my part to do that. It would have been much easier to leave my stuff in the back of my closet...... I wouldn't be surprised if this is what happens to the vast majority of folks who get certified. Heck, my certifying shop said she's still got cards there from people who were certified YEARS ago - which means they went on their trip - the trip they planned around - then never, ever went again.
It would have been SO VERY EASY to just keep waiting for my original buddy and I to "find the time" to dive together, leaving me with no dives after my Feb cert trip. I had to go out on a limb to find a local instructor, look for a shop I clicked with on my own (buddy lives in another state), and just commit to this activity, knowing NO ONE in my area who dove. I was very determined to NOT be a vacation diver (i.e., 1x/year at best) - but it took a lot of money and some nerve on my part to do that. It would have been much easier to leave my stuff in the back of my closet...... I wouldn't be surprised if this is what happens to the vast majority of folks who get certified. Heck, my certifying shop said she's still got cards there from people who were certified YEARS ago - which means they went on their trip - the trip they planned around - then never, ever went again.
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