Diver Death in Cayman

[John_B]

Whodunit, I believe fosterboxermom corrected that somewhere be post #37 when that was originally posted and your post #273.

incorrect. check your facts before posting incorrect information as this is far from the truth.

 

[montanadivenut]

Okay.......after staying up way later than I intended to, and reading wayyy too many posts, I've come to this conclusion.

The board needs more members like Riger.

1) Patient
2) Educated in what he's talking about
3) Courteous and respectful to ALL
4) Genuinely helpful

Please accept my personal thanks for posting as you do.

What a sad, sad story. No matter what the outcome, there's no such thing as a happy ending for this discussion. I'd be all for having more stringent training requirements. When YOU get in the water, there's only one person YOU can count on to make sure YOU make it back safe. All anyone else can provide is a false sense of security at best.

My condolences to the OP. Keep diving, keep training, and be safe.

 

[vladimir]

and again, we dont know what happened

We never know what happened. Nevertheless, we have this forum to try to glean some lessons from what we think happened, from what might have happened, from what could have happened. It is not a court, and it is not capable of making, or intended to make a definitive judgement of responsibility.

In this case, we actually have a witness to some of the events relevant to this diver's death. Not a perfect witness, but still better than what we normally get, which is some silly newspaper article talking about oxygen tanks, etc.

 

[jridg]

It's always tragic to hear about a diver death. New divers need special handling at times and good dive pros realize that.

I have been a DM for over 15 years now - I don't work in the industry much as I am still on active duty with the Navy and opportunities are sometimes few.

fosterboxermom - While you have my condolences, I am quite upset with you about your generalizations about DMs. Please understand me, I agree with you that this DM holds some responsibility. Your accusations of DMs looking out for each other and sticking up for this guy are not only out of line, but truly offensive to me. Dive pros need to be held to standards - as a PADI and NAUI pro, I hold myself to these standards - I have reported Instructors for failing to follow standards. I have no qualms at all about doing this. Student and ALL diver safety is important to me.

I had to stop an instructor I was working with (this happened to be NAUI - it was the instructor, not the agency at fault though) from taking a brand new diver, like your friend, on an advanced dive in Cozumel. This was a 130' dive to a difficult area. She was going to take this new diver - I told her exactly how I felt about it - and he did not go.

You railed on the DM for being the 'experienced diver' - you have been diving for 20 years - did you say to your friend "I don't think you should do this."? Just asking really.

I agree with most of what you said about how the DM should have behaved. I disagree with how you went about it. Sorry for your loss, but you lost me several posts in when you 'went off the rails' and attacked DMs in general. I know you are hurting, but you started this thread, if you weren't prepared for the feedback, you should not have done that.

I hope the authorities get to the bottom of this - however, I don't hold out much hope - he was 'certified' he made a choice - albeit most likely not a very well informed one - and he paid the price. It is tragic, it is sad, the operator should be held accountable. Will they? I just don't know.

 

[vladimir]

fosterboxermom - While you have my condolences, I am quite upset with you about your generalizations about DMs. Please understand me, I agree with you that this DM holds some responsibility. Your accusations of DMs looking out for each other and sticking up for this guy are not only out of line, but truly offensive to me.

With the below-quoted post in mind, let's all give her a break.

To Everyone on this Thread:

I would like to apologize for coming to this forum and posting statements about the Caymans and specific Dive Operators that were generalizations and not necessarily representative of all Caymans Diving Operations. I was (and still am) too close to the event to separate the emotional side from fact, that is probably not the best way to start a thread.

Some of my "facts" were not accurate about about diving in general and again I am sorry. I appreciate all the comments and advice and know that most of the experienced people here have more knowledge than I have and for that I thank you. There are a lot of veteran Scuba Board people here that gave me some great knowledge and perspective.

Pam has requested that I not participate in this thread for time being as the matter is still under investigation and is also receiving more exposure with time. I intend to respect Pam's wishes and ask that you also consider the sensitive nature of this situation as you discuss the incident. As and when I get correct and accurate information, and provided Pam approves, I will come back and post additional details.

I hope you all understand my position and understand that I am truly sorry for any comments I made that are out of line or disrespectful. Thank you for all of your condolences as well.

Thank you, Fosterboxermom

 

[GaryLee]

Having briefed the divers for the dive as this Employee clearly did (How else would they know the depths and it was a wall dive?). Where would the resposibility lay if he decided not to guide the dive and stay on the boat? This is something he is entitled to do as his role was not that of a DiveMaster even though everyone uses the term. He was not running or assisting on any courses and so his legal (not moral) responsibilities are not going to be called into question. I can tell the members of this board that the employee in question was not buddied with the Late Mr Neilson but was infact buddied with a 16 year old newly qualified Diver.

Had he been able to do anything without endangering himself or his buddy to help Mr Neilson Do we not think he would have?

 

[ScubaSteve]

Having briefed the divers for the dive as this Employee clearly did (How else would they know the depths and it was a wall dive?). Where would the resposibility lay if he decided not to guide the dive and stay on the boat? This is something he is entitled to do as his role was not that of a DiveMaster even though everyone uses the term. He was not running or assisting on any courses and so his legal (not moral) responsibilities are not going to be called into question. I can tell the members of this board that the employee in question was not buddied with the Late Mr Neilson but was infact buddied with a 16 year old newly qualified Diver.

Had he been able to do anything without endangering himself or his buddy to help Mr Neilson Do we not think he would have?

Welcome to ScubaBoard, this discussion and thanks for throwing a dog in the race. You are new and citing what appear to be facts. I hope you will not object to letting us know what your relationship to this particular incident was. Were you on the boat as another diver? Are you the DM? The Captain? The Dive Op owner?

 

[GaryLee]

Welcome to ScubaBoard, this discussion and thanks for throwing a dog in the race. You are new and citing what appear to be facts. I hope you will not object to letting us know what your relationship to this particular incident was. Were you on the boat as another diver? Are you the DM? The Captain? The Dive Op owner?

Hi ScubaSteve,

I am in contact with two people in the Caymans one happens to be a member of staff at DD and I admit is also a friend. I can't give a name as DD are not allowed to discuss this incident. Shame really as I know they are actively reading the thread and really want to speak about the events to clear up some of the more erroneous "facts" that seem to have proliferated throughout the last 29 pages.

 

[Riger]

Having briefed the divers for the dive as this Employee clearly did (How else would they know the depths and it was a wall dive?). Where would the resposibility lay if he decided not to guide the dive and stay on the boat? This is something he is entitled to do as his role was not that of a DiveMaster even though everyone uses the term. He was not running or assisting on any courses and so his legal (not moral) responsibilities are not going to be called into question. I can tell the members of this board that the employee in question was not buddied with the Late Mr Neilson but was infact buddied with a 16 year old newly qualified Diver.

Had he been able to do anything without endangering himself or his buddy to help Mr Neilson Do we not think he would have?

Gary,

Welcome. Thank you for your contribution to the forum, I am sure that as soon as America Awakes, there will be some additional responses to your posting. If you are able to shed light on some of the details, this will be appreciated.

Whilst it may not always seem this way on the Scubaboard, there is a genuine underlying interest in establishing what happened in these situations in order to determine how they may be avoided in the future.

Best Regards
Richard

 

[ScubaSteve]

Hi ScubaSteve,

I am in contact with two people in the Caymans one happens to be a member of staff at DD and I admit is also a friend. I can't give a name as DD are not allowed to discuss this incident. Shame really as I know they are actively reading the thread and really want to speak about the events to clear up some of the more erroneous "facts" that seem to have proliferated throughout the last 29 pages.

Thanks for clarifying that Gary. I appreciate it and any other information you can shed on this situation. I understand that you cannot name names and I would never ask for that (as I believe my fellow SB'ers would not either).

Gary,

Welcome. Thank you for your contribution to the forum, I am sure that as soon as America Awakes, there will be some additional responses to your posting. If you are able to shed light on some of the details, this will be appreciated.

Whilst it may not always seem this way on the Scubaboard, there is a genuine underlying interest in establishing what happened in these situations in order to determine how they may be avoided in the future.

Best Regards
Richard

Yeah what he said