Diver missing today? 03/28/12
- Thread starter cvchief
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A standard mirror is great at night. But during the day can be mistaken for a reflection off the water unless it is one like my GF and I carry. In our SDI solo class the instructor had two sided mirrors. Standard on one side and red on the other. A red flash or reflection is like nothing that occurs naturally and more likely to get attention. We now each carry one on all dives. Plus it makes doing gear/bubble checks easy when diving solo.
The reason why I take this "sport" so lightly is because it's pretty safe, fewer deaths than bowling IIRC, and most people don't take bowling too seriously either. Yes, occasionally people drift off, occasionally people get bent/embolized, and I suppose a shark eats someone every now and then. But the fact remains that the vast majority of recreational dives are conducted incident-free, where the worse that happens to someone is a hydroid sting or a bloody nose from a clogged sinus.
My first post-certification dive was a night dive, in mediocre visibility and 55 degrees, off San Clemente Island, a dot about 50 miles off Southern California, where the nearest land to the west is Hawaii. I got separated from the group, had an uncontrolled ascent, and suffered through the nausea of alternobaric vertigo as I kicked my way back to the boat alone. But I saw my first ever moray eel, cool!
Since then, I've faced a lot of other dangerous situations underwater, stuff that the average Caribbean cruiseship diver will never experience. I somehow managed to survive them all without harm. If diving is so safe that it hasn't killed me yet, surely it's not worth it for the average Caribbean cruiseship to be overly concerned.
But I'll agree that some "certified" divers really shouldn't be in the water without close supervision. Certification standards are probably too lax. Unfortunately, statistics don't bear out much causal relationship between low standards and diver injuries/death, so the standards don't change (or get even lower). Until divers start dropping off like flies, you'll see the same barely certified divers doing the same [potentially dangerous] Cozumel dives and probably having a great time.
When I got a bit unnerved during the one down current I experienced in Cozumel, my friend had a sister who had just finished her cert dives. He got separated from her when the crazy currents hit and hence became even more unnerved than me, thinking he had lost her forever. To his surprise, when he later found her back on the boat, she had loved the dive and didn't even notice the downcurrent. Go figure.
Whether it's the duty or just the moral obligation of a DM to keep his group safe, I'm not certain. It depends on each party's expectations (is the diver expecting a critter spotter or a hand-holder), the level of expertise of both (for instance, I've had DMs with far less experience and training than me guide me on dives), written documents, and agency guidelines. However, it is in the financial interest of every dive professional to keep divers safe for the selfish reason that, if divers get injured or killed, standards might get tougher, there might be scrutiny from government, and undoubtedly public interest will wane and pro divers will lose their jobs. Any DM in Cozumel who loses a diver should be shunned, booted off the island as an incentive for the rest to keep their divers safe and their pockets full.
First, Mike describes me in the opening part of his post #188. It is sad (about me).
Second, he makes a lot of valid points. Using this incident as an example, we have two inexperienced divers in a buddy team. Realistically, neither can offer much help to the other if things go bad.
I am neither an instructor nor a Cozumel dive guide dude, but I would expect (given the Santa Rosa site), that the group would first descend to a sandy bottom on the shore side of the wall. Maybe that takes two to three minutes. Then the DM checks all the divers to see if they are comfortable and ready to go to the wall. So they do not get to the wall until about five minutes into the dive.
Yet five minutes later the woman has to go up....apparently unable or unwilling to wait until her husband notifies the DM that they are going up.
So what is the lesson here? Two inexperienced divers may not make a good buddy team. You can't blame the husband. He is a newbie. He does not have the experience yet to handle the less benign conditions of the ocean compared to a pool. He is not rescue trained.
I don't know how the dive shop handles situations like this or if they will change.
But based upon this one and others recently, I will end my dive if required to babysit any single diver or buddy team going to or at the surface that even remotely appears to be inexperienced. This may never happen but if more experienced divers took that attitude, these cases would become less common.
This concept also applies to women. Recall the C-53(?) incident of last year I think. You just do not leave women alone in potentially non-benign conditions. For the liberals who claim this is sexist....it is the way I was raised. Deal with it.
As for the notion that they should be able to take care of themselves because they have a C-card, how well did that concept work in this case? More experienced divers can watch out for less experienced divers. They may not have a legal requirement to do that but it takes little effort to periodically look at them and assess their situation.
Second, he makes a lot of valid points. Using this incident as an example, we have two inexperienced divers in a buddy team. Realistically, neither can offer much help to the other if things go bad.
I am neither an instructor nor a Cozumel dive guide dude, but I would expect (given the Santa Rosa site), that the group would first descend to a sandy bottom on the shore side of the wall. Maybe that takes two to three minutes. Then the DM checks all the divers to see if they are comfortable and ready to go to the wall. So they do not get to the wall until about five minutes into the dive.
Yet five minutes later the woman has to go up....apparently unable or unwilling to wait until her husband notifies the DM that they are going up.
So what is the lesson here? Two inexperienced divers may not make a good buddy team. You can't blame the husband. He is a newbie. He does not have the experience yet to handle the less benign conditions of the ocean compared to a pool. He is not rescue trained.
I don't know how the dive shop handles situations like this or if they will change.
But based upon this one and others recently, I will end my dive if required to babysit any single diver or buddy team going to or at the surface that even remotely appears to be inexperienced. This may never happen but if more experienced divers took that attitude, these cases would become less common.
This concept also applies to women. Recall the C-53(?) incident of last year I think. You just do not leave women alone in potentially non-benign conditions. For the liberals who claim this is sexist....it is the way I was raised. Deal with it.
As for the notion that they should be able to take care of themselves because they have a C-card, how well did that concept work in this case? More experienced divers can watch out for less experienced divers. They may not have a legal requirement to do that but it takes little effort to periodically look at them and assess their situation.
A seriously good idea. Thanks
OP
If you maintain your gear. I have seen peeps on the boat with expensive newish gear that is F-ed up and repaired on the boat or swapped out for a rental. So if you are not really 'into' diving, rental gear from a good op might be the better option? Of course the same thing about experience, if you are 'in' to diving, maybe you don't need so close watching and your own gear is better than a rental. If you aren't experienced, maybe a DM who will keep an eye on you and good rental gear is the BEST option. I have seem my DM take a newbie buddy team and tell them to stick 'close' so they get a higher level of care than those that have a little more experience.
IMO, the truth is somewhere in the middle. I sympathize with a DM presented with a herd of newbies to shepherd on a dive where early on one of them suddenly bolts for the surface alone. What is he to do? Abandon the rest of his charges, or leave the loner to fend for him/herself? Either way, if something goes pear-shaped, he is going to be seen by some (with the benefit of hindsight) as being at fault.
theduckguru
Contributor
Over time I have seen all kinds of DM's, from really hap hazard appearing DM's who are merely guides; some often routinely taking novice divers way beyond their level of training, even into overhead environments, ect. These DM's I would feel very lax letting anyone I care for dive with.
I have also dived with DM's who seem to be aware of everything around them, spotting quickly any who may warrant closer attention, or special care, and quickly responding to any issues, however small, even if just to be present while the diver resolves whatever issue they may be experiencing by them self.
This last sort of DM I have seen even keeping tabs on teams of divers that he has dismissed for their assent, watching from the corner of his eye until he knows they have been recovered by the boat. It is always satisfying to know that you are more than just a paying passenger that your guide feels no responsibility for protecting, even if you are an experienced diver.
As with dive buddies, not all DM's are cut from the same sort of cloth. Even though I am pretty confident of my ability to take care of myself, and my buddy I dam-sure would rather have buddies and DM's around who I feel are aware of every other diver around them, and ready to step in if someone needs help.
It is also this latter sort of DM that I hope my young son and daughter will be fortunate enough to be diving with, as they grow and move on in the world of diving where I can no longer be with them on every dive.
I am making no judgements about the sort of DM who was involved in this accident. He was notified by the one diver of the team's ascent, and dismissed that buddy team, which does certainly lower any further responsibility he may have had.
It will take some time to sort out the entire incident. In the end there simply be no one at all who failed in their responsibility. Sometimes accidents are just not preventable due to things we have no control of at the time.
I have also dived with DM's who seem to be aware of everything around them, spotting quickly any who may warrant closer attention, or special care, and quickly responding to any issues, however small, even if just to be present while the diver resolves whatever issue they may be experiencing by them self.
This last sort of DM I have seen even keeping tabs on teams of divers that he has dismissed for their assent, watching from the corner of his eye until he knows they have been recovered by the boat. It is always satisfying to know that you are more than just a paying passenger that your guide feels no responsibility for protecting, even if you are an experienced diver.
As with dive buddies, not all DM's are cut from the same sort of cloth. Even though I am pretty confident of my ability to take care of myself, and my buddy I dam-sure would rather have buddies and DM's around who I feel are aware of every other diver around them, and ready to step in if someone needs help.
It is also this latter sort of DM that I hope my young son and daughter will be fortunate enough to be diving with, as they grow and move on in the world of diving where I can no longer be with them on every dive.
I am making no judgements about the sort of DM who was involved in this accident. He was notified by the one diver of the team's ascent, and dismissed that buddy team, which does certainly lower any further responsibility he may have had.
It will take some time to sort out the entire incident. In the end there simply be no one at all who failed in their responsibility. Sometimes accidents are just not preventable due to things we have no control of at the time.
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