Diver missing today? 03/28/12

[Sideways]

For me the bottom line is I would rather be with a DM who wasn't just going through the motions, and actually was pro-active for his/hers divers safety. I feel very comfortable with my capabilities, but not so much for my GF's. She is a new diver, and I have to admit I have to really focus on being a better buddy for her. My nose gets stuck in the viewfinder at times :bonk:. I always Evaluate the level of ability and "Give a crap" that our DM has on each outing. That aids to determine my awareness level, kinda sad, but it's honest. For the question of actual liability, I lean towards the fact that we're all certified, and SHOULD understand the risks and safe practices.

 

[gypsyjim]

Maybe.

We have had conflicting reports on this, and I have no idea which is to be believed. Each report has a good reason to be the more accurate; each report has a good reason to be the less accurate.

Correct. As with so many accidents, there is a lot we do not yet know, and much we may never know.

I was speaking in generalities, based on what it seems like we are learning.

I was also clarifying my much earlier suggestion that the DM might have have some responsibility, before we learned the the buddy MAY have alerted him.

We can only wait, and hope, pray and maybe learn from whatever errors may have been made.

 

[ggunn]

Maybe.

We have had conflicting reports on this, and I have no idea which is to be believed. Each report has a good reason to be the more accurate; each report has a good reason to be the less accurate.

For every incident involving more than one person, there are as many subjective takes on it as there are people. A POV that is not accessible to us is an omniscient objective one. Another is that of anyone who did not survive the incident. It's not really a question of accuracy; any reconstruction of the event from what we can know about it will be at best an approximation.

 

[Mike]

I am neither an instructor nor a Cozumel dive guide dude, but I would expect (given the Santa Rosa site), that the group would first descend to a sandy bottom on the shore side of the wall. Maybe that takes two to three minutes. Then the DM checks all the divers to see if they are comfortable and ready to go to the wall. So they do not get to the wall until about five minutes into the dive.
​

Yet five minutes later the woman has to go up....apparently unable or unwilling to wait until her husband notifies the DM that they are going up.

So what is the lesson here? Two inexperienced divers may not make a good buddy team. You can't blame the husband. He is a newbie. He does not have the experience yet to handle the less benign conditions of the ocean compared to a pool. He is not rescue trained.

If that was the scenario then the husband is far more guilty of making a mistake then the DM.

You don't abandon your buddy.

If in the time it took for the husband to realize his wife was having to surface and signalling the DM and in this time he lost visual sight of his wife, then he made a mistake in taking the time to signal the dive master. You don't abandon your buddy. If the husband had stuck to his wife like glue we would either know what happened or possibly there would have been no incident at all. Anybody who disappears means their buddy failed them. I'm sorry it sounds harsh, but the life lost is far harsher.

* I've dove for 12 years on rental gear. I can easily afford any dive equipment I would want to buy, I simply can't stand lugging that much crap on and off airlines, cleaning it, maintaining it...

I'm just lucky or I don't really care. Between myself and my buddy I have two spare regs available to me on every dive. I take my mask, fins, snorkel, dive computer and safety signaling gear and a wetsuit and that's it, and I try to dive with outfits that charge enough to be able to maintain good quality rental gear.

 

[Laurie S.]

If that was the scenario then the husband is far more guilty of making a mistake then the DM.

You don't abandon your buddy.

If in the time it took for the husband to realize his wife was having to surface and signalling the DM and in this time he lost visual sight of his wife, then he made a mistake in taking the time to signal the dive master. You don't abandon your buddy. If the husband had stuck to his wife like glue we would either know what happened or possibly there would have been no incident at all. Anybody who disappears means their buddy failed them. I'm sorry it sounds harsh, but the life lost is far harsher.

I fully agree with you.

 

[ggunn]

If that was the scenario then the husband is far more guilty of making a mistake then the DM.

You don't abandon your buddy.

If in the time it took for the husband to realize his wife was having to surface and signalling the DM and in this time he lost visual sight of his wife, then he made a mistake in taking the time to signal the dive master. You don't abandon your buddy. If the husband had stuck to his wife like glue we would either know what happened or possibly there would have been no incident at all. Anybody who disappears means their buddy failed them. I'm sorry it sounds harsh, but the life lost is far harsher.

Hindsight is always 20:20. In every accident there is almost always something that someone could have done differently which could possibly have changed the ultimate outcome. It doesn't mean, necessarily, that anyone was at fault or should be blamed for what happened. Diving is not totally risk-free; there are random variables in play on every dive. I submit that it is largely those random variables which attract us to diving.

 

[Brules]

Any update on this incident? Have they officially called off S&R?

Also, I think an issue that occurs in Coz a LOT is DM's allow people to solo ascend, breaking up buddies. I ALWAYS pair up with the DM if possible so I don't have to deal with a buddy who blows through his air in 15min, but I see it all the time......they will ok it in pre-dive brief, which I do not agree with.

 

[pidgiepoo]

---------- Post added at 07:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 AM ----------



over-weight, out of shape, medically questionable, old aged, feeble ..
with bad knees, backs, weak upper body strength,

,.

Granny doesn't like your choice of adjectives Mike !!!! although I do agree with your coments.

 

[ccannon707]

Thought the 2 sided mirror with red on one side sounded good. Found it:

Trident Safety Signal Mirror - Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL

Also at Scuba Toys.

 

[Mossman]

I think you'll find more people die sleeping than scuba diving, but I don't believe scuba is safer.

Obviously you've never heard J snore.

It's still safer than a lot of other pasttimes, especially when factoring out the deaths due solely to stress, i.e. heart attacks and the like. Scuba attracts a larger portion of the out-of-shape than more active "sports" precisely because it is so physically un-taxing. At least golfers exercise their arms and shoulders. Put the same poorly trained occasional divers that survive relative advanced Cozumel diving on a ski slope that's at the same advanced level and you'll see far more injuries and deaths. Uncoordinated divers merely smash into the reef and blow their safety stops. Uncoordinated skiers hit trees and break their necks.

But based upon this one and others recently, I will end my dive if required to babysit any single diver or buddy team going to or at the surface that even remotely appears to be inexperienced. This may never happen but if more experienced divers took that attitude, these cases would become less common.

I'm an experienced diver who will be paying good money for 12 dives on my next trip to Cozumel. If required to babysit any diver, I should be reimbursed for my time and trouble. Otherwise, why should the paying customer sacrifice his or her dive to do something that the paid professional is supposed to do? If I'm diving with you and you follow up a newbie buddy team, I'll wave to you from depth, then continue the rest of my expensive dive with the DM.