Diver Training: How much is enough?

[DCBC]

I've been instructing SCUBA for the past 43 years and my basic program hasn't changed very much (although I prefer a computer now over the chalkboard). Over the years, I've seen the 'Training Standards' for most diver certification agencies drop across the board (Diver through Instructor). When discussing this in the past, others have supported these changes. It's often felt that 'advances in technology' can now safely allow a person with questionable watermanship ability to dive. Stress is kept at a minimum and "the industry" readily defers to profit over education. This is not however the discussion intended for this thread.

My question was motivated by the following post in the Solo Diving area:

One more reason

Sunday I went to an invitational dive and got parternered with a total ditz. I should have known better. Her navigational method was to surface and take a look!!! Once we submerged she proceeded to pull herself forward hand over hand and fin into the silt totally keeping me from any chance of seeing her. The vis was 5-7' at best before she hit bottom. She never looked back. I had the flag - duh - look for my bubbles, stop and look, just surface and take a look. Nope. Worse she found another group, with a flag, and took off on her own again. WTF! You are with a safe group and you take off on your own.

After searching for this moron I went back to shore (base) to see if she had returned (normal procedure). Nope. We spotted her about 400 yards away - swimming away from a flag. I geared up, did a long surface swim, did an intercept, and led her back to the base.

Any wonder why I dive solo?​

I'm sure many of us have seen divers that they would not feel comfortable diving with. How prevalent is this? Do people disregard much of what they were taught, or simply were they not taught how to dive safely to begin with? Has the "Diver certification industry" lowered the standards too far??

Many may say that a diver (after their initial training) is encouraged to seek further instruction. On the other hand, I've maintained that there is no excuse to "certify" any diver that is a danger to himself and others at any time. Do you feel that a high percentage of new divers fall into the incompetent category? Is this a reason why people abandon the Buddy system in favor of diving alone? (I know that I'll choose to dive solo in many situations if buddy competence is questionable).

Is recreational diving heading in the correct direction? Should the direction be changed?

 

[They call me Tater]

Not to discredit the question as it is a good topic, but based on previous threads...Gunna need some popcorn as the bashing begins.

 

[DCBC]

Not to discredit the question as it is a good topic, but based on previous threads...Gunna need some popcorn as the bashing begins.

No Agency bashing here. To my knowledge only LA Country has 'increased' their standards. It's more about the end product than it is about the manufacturer...

 

[jar546]

Once a student completes OW, you cannot control what type of diver they will be. In class, they could be exemplary students but after that, they will formulate habits based on who they dive with on a regular basis. If a new diver hangs out with the wrong crowd, so to speak, then all is lost. The sad part is that some may look back at you and wonder what the hell you taught that particular diver.

Students learn what they have to and after that, they are on their own. Of course, sometimes we do find that one student who is very competent and learns easy but the student becomes overconfident and we know will become a risk taker if they have that attitude. We can only ensure that student meets the requirements and try to have a very candid talk with them. I still believe that most (not all) divers are products of the group they normally dive with on a routine basis as most emulate each other.

So how much is enough? I suppose the training standards we are required to teach to is where it all begins. If you don't agree with the training standards you are suppose teach then I think it's time to find another agency to represent. As far as open water is concerned, I believe that the standards are adequate IF they are followed and the instructor takes the time to follow ALL of the required standards. I have yet to see that.


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[DCBC]

Once a student completes OW, you cannot control what type of diver they will be. In class, they could be exemplary students but after that, they will formulate habits based on who they dive with on a regular basis. If a new diver hangs out with the wrong crowd, so to speak, then all is lost. The sad part is that some may look back at you and wonder what the hell you taught that particular diver.

Students learn what they have to and after that, they are on their own. Of course, sometimes we do find that one student who is very competent and learns easy but the student becomes overconfident and we know will become a risk taker if they have that attitude. We can only ensure that student meets the requirements and try to have a very candid talk with them. I still believe that most (not all) divers are products of the group they normally dive with on a routine basis as most emulate each other.

So how much is enough? I suppose the training standards we are required to teach to is where it all begins. If you don't agree with the training standards you are suppose teach then I think it's time to find another agency to represent. As far as open water is concerned, I believe that the standards are adequate IF they are followed and the instructor takes the time to follow ALL of the required standards. I have yet to see that.

It is not my intention to focus on the standards of any one organization. Being an Instructor, I'd ask that you try to evaluate the 'competency level of the average diver,' rather than those that you personally train (or the standard of your training agency). I suppose I'm attempting to solicit feedback regarding the level of diver competency today in general. If the level of knowledge and skill is adequate, are you saying that when diver incompetency occurs (and I'm sure you have seen many of them), that this is solely a result of each of these divers knowing what should be done and choosing not to follow reasonable protocol?

 

[Kharon]

One of the best divers I've ever met told me that a card is simply a certification that you are ready to begin learning. From that point it's every divers responsibility to practice, practice, practice - strive for perfection knowing you will never get there. After so many years and thousands of dives she still regularly practices buoyancy skills. She also told me to practice one skill till I've got it down before moving on to the next skill. Perhaps that should be the last thing students are told as they get their C-card.

 

[They call me Tater]

I wasn't refering to you...just the general flow that often happens regarding training and agencies.

To me, it is an sort of an unanswerable question. I don't believe all divers in all location need all the same requirements. Would cutting the number of divers in half make the sport better or worse?? Perhaps better for the older crowd who learned more and saw better sea life to compare to today, but what about those who are trying to make a living at it and working to get as many as possible into the sport...which may also draw more support to protecting the marine envirionment. The same discussion can be had of sport, education, business etc.. Training vs. Experience. How do you get experience if you don't get to dive?? Can you train away 'stupid' or 'bravado' ?

I am one of those who learned long ago but just recently came back to diveing. So I see both sides. I consider myself a newb but have already been with divers who bounce around like ping pong balls but I see them get better with practice. I'm sure I did the same at first and don't think anyone should be thrown out of the water becuase they don't have enough experience. To me the bottom line is attitude towards diving that is really the issue. If you enjoy it but realize that you can die and you need to practice skills and get better and safer you shouldn't have to spend 3 months and $1000 in training. I like the PADI model. I get to take small steps as I dive on my own for fun but can add a class here and there to continue education. I don't live on the beach and have a chance to dive 10 times a week. I am lucky to get in 10 dives in a month during the always too short summers. If someone here wants to visit Cozumel for 1 week a year to dive but they can't becuase they don't have enought training, does that help??

I'm not smart enough or experienced enough to have great insight in diving, but I have the same discusions regarding my work, my kids education, my wifes work etc. It seems once we get experience we all tend to say how we were trained better and knew more while glossing past the "crap did we really do that!?" times. I'm certain there have been many a well schooled diver who as had trouble under water from every training agency. Now I can sit back, read the thread and learn some more.

 

[DCBC]

One of the best divers I've ever met told me that a card is simply a certification that you are ready to begin learning. From that point it's every divers responsibility to practice, practice, practice - strive for perfection knowing you will never get there. After so many years and thousands of dives she still regularly practices buoyancy skills. She also told me to practice one skill till I've got it down befor moving on to the next skill. Perhaps that should be the last thing students are told as they get their C-card.

Thanks Karon. I agree; everyone improves through practice regardless of their starting point. I'm still learning and continue to keep an open-mind. The question is more directed to the level that a diver should be at initially. Should a newly certified diver be required to demonstrate reasonable Buddy skills (for example), or is this something that they are to learn after certification? When you go diving, what degree of competency do you expect of your Buddy? Perhaps you might comment on some of your experiences. Have you been disappointed with 'instabuddies' or have you hoped to never have to need to dive with them again, after the dive?

 

[rhwestfall]

Preaching to the choir...... Sadly, you aren't going to find the answers here. I would likely say those represented here (divers and instructors) are here because of the importance they feel. You can only set your own standards (some can't even do that due to agency stance), and be a good example...

Yes, the instruction is a far cry from before in many aspects (though it may be even better in others). It all boils down to the instructor producing the best he can, and the student wanting to do/be better.

In this fast food - quick gratification society of today, it sure isn't of high probability for achieving a high degree of knowledge and skill.

Frustrating.........

 

[Kharon]

Sorry. My browser crashed and thought my post was lost - duplicate post.