Divers can be strange

[100days-a-year]

No James ,you could not go down and take a cave course over the weekend and be a cave diver.A week from OW to full cave is rather quick.Not to mention the fact most agencies require a minimun # of dives,most in doubles before you can even advance beteen cavern to apprentice to full cave.And they won't pass you till you display those skills.And ego -driven students are often the last to pass as they come into the class believing they already possess the requisite skill.The many deaths you mention are not certified cave divers but rather OW divers and even instructors who thought they had the ability and skill to dive without the training and skills.The few cave diver deaths have historically been attributed mostly to breaking primary rules of penetration diving and some equipment failure.As a rule 99% of the cave divers I've met which is 100's are very apt to help new guys out.I have met a few jerks but they pervade all of diving.I have yet to meet one DIR caver who was a jerk other than 1 who was a jerk far before he discovered GUE.They have been the most helpful even going so far as to help carry/setup gear for someone else's students.....

 

[MikeJacobs]

evad once bubbled... The funniest ones are the alpha males at the bottom of their game. And the beauty is, they don't know who they are.

Oh, you are sooooo right. But don't forget those Alpha Fems... they can be just as annoying in their own special way.

 

[TCDiver1]

100days-a-year once bubbled...
.....As a rule 99% of the cave divers I've met which is 100's are very apt to help new guys out.I have met a few jerks but they pervade all of diving......

I don't know 99% of any group that would be willing to help others out. Lol! I agree with most of what your saying but 99%?

I have found Cave/Technical divers in general to have larger egos and therefore be less tolerant of those with lesser skills, aka OW divers. That just goes with the territory IMO. For the most part those with smaller egos rarely see the point to Cave/Technical diving.

All of diving used to be that way. It wasn't for everybody and it was advertised as such by agencies and instructors. I still take crap from family and friends, who don't dive, about how dangerous regular diving is. I bet you do too.

For the most part, diving only attracted the adventurous, which in general have larger egos. But the real alpha egos tend to gravitate toward Cave/Tech diving. Thats just the way things work from my experience.

 

[MikeJacobs]

pipedope once bubbled... And I used to fly Hang Gliders... SNIP...BTW Do you know how to tell the difference between a fairy tale, a sea story and a hang glider (or dive) story? Fairy tale starts, "Once upon a time."
Sea story starts, "No sh*t, this really happened."
Hang glider story, "No sh*t, there I was, THOUGHT I WAS GONNA DIE!"

LOL! Add rock climbing to that list, although at least climbers have awesome payoffs (view, endorphins). I used to climb but got tired of conversations limited to (1) gear, (2) accidents. No depth - sadly, with too many it is about facing fear and obvious issues with inadequacy. Not that facing fear isn't a rush, but geez there is MUCH more to life so get over yourself already!

BTW the cave divers I dove with in Central Florida while at UF a decade ago were great guys - extremely proficient and talked about everything BUT gear and accidents. I've been put off by some I've met more recently... could this 'ego' thing be a recent development, generated by whomever is training cavers these days? I mean, could it be that the schools themselves are guilty of inflating the ego-element to manipluate prospective students (i.e. a "marketing" strategy of the DIR cult)?

 

[pipedope]

The things I remember the most are the cool things I have seen.
Purple coral on Farnsworth Bank.
The sun setting, moon rising over Lake Elsinore while flying my hang glider.
4 hour sunset/sunrises near the Antarctic Peninsula.
LOTS of whales, close up in Antarctica.
A surprising variety of fish in storm water drain pipes in central FL.

Did I mention that I used to climb?

 

[TCDiver1]

MikeJacobs once bubbled...
I've been put off by some I've met more recently... could this 'ego' thing be a recent development, generated by whomever is training cavers these days? I mean, could it be that the schools themselves are guilty of inflating the ego-element to manipluate prospective students (i.e. a "marketing" strategy of the DIR cult)?

Well, i don't know 100's of cave divers like someone in this thread said they did but i know or have known dozens of them. And most of them, probably well over half, have large egos. Like i said, IMO, most divers in general have rather large egos. I never said they were bad guys/gals but the majority of the ones i know and have met tend to look down their nose at you when they find out your not cave certified. This goes back to the early 90's (pre-DIR), so its not a new thing from my experience.

Just human nature IMO. People with larger egos tend to gravitate toward and excell in difficult tasks, eg: most fighter pilots tend to think a lot of themselves. Its no biggy, its just what i have seen and experienced.

 

[8buck]

Well all I have to say is people get cert in whatever because they enjoy the sport and if we had more people like some of us who do not mind helping others out to better themselfs at diving when they need it, then we would not be having this thread. I also know that the dive plan is a little more in depth than open water but that does answer why they or some have that certain Better Than You ego. If I was to start a thread free cave cert and equipment to you. Who all would show up??? some of us would just for the equipment. I dunno just think some people need to stop thinking they are so much better than the rest. what were they born cavers or did they start like everyone else. frankly they do not bother me much. I could really care less i have more fun with some of my good buddies on here then i would shunning people...

 

[DEEPSEAWOLF]

Odd diver behavior class PSY#0101

1) Breathing fumes from a scooter you are directly in the wake of.
2) Breathing air from a tank on your back instead of gills.
3) Remeber that diesel fumes have less calories than a Milky Way on a ten minute surface interval.
4) Looking at fish like they were in an unusual environment.
5) Getting a complex by being followed by schools of fish,
(who are looking at you like you are in an unusual environment).
6) Breathing from your snorkel at 40FSW instead of a regulator, on a regular basis.
7) Too much time spent looking at wet rocks.
8) Just because you have a SCUBA cert, you do not have the right to "gas up" surface swimmers making their buddies think they cut one in the water.
9) SCUBA Hunters eat "BUGS", nuff said.
10) Scuba Hunters get crabs, nuff said.
11) When you have eight hundred pounds of gear on, trampling little children is not only fun, but often excuseable.

Not meaning to offend anyone, I have left out rules number 12-3,478. These will be covered in the ADVANCED class PSY#0102 which will require a retest of #0101's skills and will require a minimum depth attained of Freudian instead of 60 fsw.

Thank you, this is a recording.
:doctor:

 

[100days-a-year]

OK,90%.A good example was several years ago @ 40fathom grotto when 2 classes of new guys&gals bring all thier stuff down and set-up where the cave&mix guys normally set up.The tech guys explained why they were closer to the water and helped the others move thier stuff and pointed out how to go about getting ready the easiest way.No macho BS.I do remember 1 young new guy getting his toes stepped on after basially saying he could do this.Just before he finished his OW checkouts.Mebbe I have a nice disposition so I meet lotsa nice people.Or mebbe I just am so oblivious to others egos mine doesn't get riled up.More on Topic,if you really want to see some "derelictus weirdicus"go to just about any shop in the Keys and you will meet at least one working there.

 

[DEEPSEAWOLF]

When doing my checkouts, I set up near but not closest table to the entry platforms. I learned when I was young while freediving, that the guys with the heavy gear get grumbly when you take the table closest to the stairs.
That having been said, since we were the only divers at Manatee that morning, we had our picks bt stayed away from those tables. The cavers did seem a bit offish, but my instructor was also a caver and I asked him what was up. He said it's just the nature of the beast. Many peole get into diving to isolate from the world and don't want to be disturbed while doing what they deem the only peace they get. He said he himself finds his behaviour lacking when people want to talk to him. I did however see that if you catch them when not encumbered or in a hurry, most of them are quite personable.
As for the oddballs, this party in SoFlo is going to be a humdinger of a get together! Weirdoes and freaks will abound I am sure. I expect that we will be an unusual group when gathered, but hopeully not braindead.
I look forward to seeing everyone in two weeks... counting down!