Maybe a 50 cal on the front of Steve's dive boat...
JAG
JAG
Diving rules? (Japan)
- Thread starter dcpac
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Well, I would say that we are already doing that, on a small scale, winning hearts and minds one by one.
For example, when boat captains take us to a new uncharted spot, or we discuss more about boat safety and introduce better roll call methods, etc.
I can also see a possiible future expansion of Mar Scuba to include a dive pension and dive boat, but it would go to new dive sites and not to the already established ones. This would involve a lot of expedition diving to find original dive points rather than to try to hook up on the other operations' mooring buoys, etc.
The problem is that these things cost money. How long do you think it takes to pay off a boat including fuel, maintenance, dock fees, etc.? Then after you subtract all these expenses, tell me how much you think 2 boat dives will cost.
For example, when boat captains take us to a new uncharted spot, or we discuss more about boat safety and introduce better roll call methods, etc.
I can also see a possiible future expansion of Mar Scuba to include a dive pension and dive boat, but it would go to new dive sites and not to the already established ones. This would involve a lot of expedition diving to find original dive points rather than to try to hook up on the other operations' mooring buoys, etc.
The problem is that these things cost money. How long do you think it takes to pay off a boat including fuel, maintenance, dock fees, etc.? Then after you subtract all these expenses, tell me how much you think 2 boat dives will cost.
Titan
Registered
50 cal on the bow - Nope, don't think that was in the spirit.
Hearts and minds - right direction but kind of defeatist, waiting for things to happen on their own. And then we're back to do it yourself.
Surely there are things that we can do as divers and customers to encourage/instigate a change of thinking ?
As Matt knows, I have my own ideas on this, which I'll share in due course but I want to stimulate some input from others first.
Titan
Hearts and minds - right direction but kind of defeatist, waiting for things to happen on their own. And then we're back to do it yourself.
Surely there are things that we can do as divers and customers to encourage/instigate a change of thinking ?
As Matt knows, I have my own ideas on this, which I'll share in due course but I want to stimulate some input from others first.
Titan
I said "one by one" which means I can only change the heart and mind of one dive service at a time. I'm not just sitting around waiting for it to happen, cause fishermen have a lotta years of history and inertia.
I think that a new thread should be started, Titan and I are talking about a completely different thing than Steve's original question of "what laws prevent me from driving my own boat in the ocean, filling my own tanks, and diving wherever I want".
I think that a new thread should be started, Titan and I are talking about a completely different thing than Steve's original question of "what laws prevent me from driving my own boat in the ocean, filling my own tanks, and diving wherever I want".
I believe that the situation with the fishermen used to be one of mistrust here in Kyushu as well. It changed as the fishermen realized that the divers weren't 'stealing' their catch. Maybe that is the logical way forward? At the end of the day I don't think that fisherman automatically don't like divers - maybe in some areas some people set a bad example (by taking shellfish etc). If the fishermen come to realize that divers don't misbehave - I'm fairly confident that they'll change. We need to police ourselves and dive responsibly. People like Matt are surely helping this process - setting a good example, and asking nicely, will often get you a long way. (maybe a lot further than a legal fight!!!)
Like Steve, and others, I want to dive here and now. Isn't that the Zen of diving? Unlike Steve I don't have access to a 50 cal... I have nothing against paying a fisherman a *reasonable* boat fee or for using his shower. Seems cheaper and less bothersome than buying a boat or waiting for them to change. Perhaps if we all could get together in a club we could have more negotiating power.
Well - I'm glad i live in 'backwards' Kyushu. We already dive here for free. The first province into Honshu - Yamaguchi - is also free (we've got a beach cabin booked in a couple of weeks time). Maybe it's a southern thing and eventually the liberated, mainstream areas of Japan will catch on!!!
Meanwhile if you don't want to wait - and want to dive for free - come on down, I'll be happy to say hello!!
Meanwhile if you don't want to wait - and want to dive for free - come on down, I'll be happy to say hello!!Titan
Registered
Here's my idea. Matt's right, we probably should start another thread for this, but before we do I'll outline the concept and the logic. This might be a little long winded, so try to bare with me while I pontificate.
The problem is one of competition. The fishermens collectives can make the rules as they choose because they control access to the habours and the boats. If you could find a way of introducing some competition between fishermen you would breakdown their consensus and they wouldn't be able to reach these nice cosy arrangerments with each other.
OK, so how ?
Well, this is a bit of a leap - how many of us have had a near miss with a fishing boat recently. I've had three near incidents and witnessed another in as many weeks. All as a result of less than aware fishmen at the helm of the dive (converted fishing) boat. This got me thinking there ought to be a special license for diveboat captains. This would improve safety and as a by-product introduce a schism in the fishermans collectives that would provide the competition needed to open the market.
The first task would be to design a course, standards, and certification procedure for diveboat captains. This shouldn't be too hard, you could plagarise existing courses from BSAC/CMAS and localise them.
Then you would need to persuade a certification agency to take the course on, or alternatively, start your own. Then train some instructors.
Meantime you start to actively publicise the dangers inherent in todays current boat operations. It shouldn't take too much effort to get the ball rolling. After that you introduce your certification as "the answer" and encourage divers to ask for "BoatSafe" (or whatever you decide to call it) whenever they sign up for a dive.
It would take a while, and lots of cash, and a fair bit of effort, but within a year or two operations without "Boatsafe" certification would start to loose business to those that do.
One of the primary requirements of "BoatSafe" would be that all captains of diveboats would have to be certified divers. This would encourage the creation of specialist dive/boat businesses in the harbours and discourage oportunist fishermen from just renting a few tanks and taking people out weekends on the fishing boat.
Once the fishermen are the divers, much of the problem starts to go away. A good example of this is the situation at Kumomi in Izu. The original fishing/boat operation has been joined over the last two years by another 4 operations, two of which are specialist dive/boat operations. These newer operations are far safer, have better boats, are more aware, cheaper, and more flexible. One of them has introduced another 16 sites to add to the original two. The result of this is that Kumomi is now one of the cheapest places in Izu to dive.
Just as well too, cause it one of my favourites
So I propose a new thread where we discuss the things that we might include in a "BoatSafe" certification. (including perhaps, a better name).
Titan
The problem is one of competition. The fishermens collectives can make the rules as they choose because they control access to the habours and the boats. If you could find a way of introducing some competition between fishermen you would breakdown their consensus and they wouldn't be able to reach these nice cosy arrangerments with each other.
OK, so how ?
Well, this is a bit of a leap - how many of us have had a near miss with a fishing boat recently. I've had three near incidents and witnessed another in as many weeks. All as a result of less than aware fishmen at the helm of the dive (converted fishing) boat. This got me thinking there ought to be a special license for diveboat captains. This would improve safety and as a by-product introduce a schism in the fishermans collectives that would provide the competition needed to open the market.
The first task would be to design a course, standards, and certification procedure for diveboat captains. This shouldn't be too hard, you could plagarise existing courses from BSAC/CMAS and localise them.
Then you would need to persuade a certification agency to take the course on, or alternatively, start your own. Then train some instructors.
Meantime you start to actively publicise the dangers inherent in todays current boat operations. It shouldn't take too much effort to get the ball rolling. After that you introduce your certification as "the answer" and encourage divers to ask for "BoatSafe" (or whatever you decide to call it) whenever they sign up for a dive.
It would take a while, and lots of cash, and a fair bit of effort, but within a year or two operations without "Boatsafe" certification would start to loose business to those that do.
One of the primary requirements of "BoatSafe" would be that all captains of diveboats would have to be certified divers. This would encourage the creation of specialist dive/boat businesses in the harbours and discourage oportunist fishermen from just renting a few tanks and taking people out weekends on the fishing boat.
Once the fishermen are the divers, much of the problem starts to go away. A good example of this is the situation at Kumomi in Izu. The original fishing/boat operation has been joined over the last two years by another 4 operations, two of which are specialist dive/boat operations. These newer operations are far safer, have better boats, are more aware, cheaper, and more flexible. One of them has introduced another 16 sites to add to the original two. The result of this is that Kumomi is now one of the cheapest places in Izu to dive.
Just as well too, cause it one of my favourites
So I propose a new thread where we discuss the things that we might include in a "BoatSafe" certification. (including perhaps, a better name).
Titan
New thread should be entitled "Dive Safety in Japan" and among the discussion should be Oxygen kits, first air training, Emergency action plans, safety equipment (life jackets, SOLAS gear, radios and SOS protocol) on boats, detailed briefing with emergency procedures, proper boat handling and procedures for ascending from a dive, etc.
Mar Scuba:
That's a good topic to discuss - and try to do something about!
Do not forget the safe diving part! Teamwork/buddy diving, practice air-sharing, equipment configuration, rescue diver training, gas issues...
Similar threads
