Diving Safety Officer Qualifications

[M_Bipartitus]

On a related question, Assume somone is diving for an organization like an aquarium and the dives, such as cleaning tanks, are nominally commercial dives. Does this mean that they must be (or become) a member of the UBS union? Does it mater if they are employed or volunteers?

What about the same question for diving that is just observational, such as underwater photography, videography, or just a buddy for someone preforming these observational tasks?

P.S. The aquarium I have volunteered at had rules set so that both scientific and OSHA standards were met for all dives so they didn't have to worry about classifications. I'm not sure how this worked, but I would have thought there were some conflicts between the two.

 

[Thalassamania]

Educational diving is for the sole purpose of learning to do something, i.e. SCUBA instruction, not for presentations, fish feeding, display cleaning and maintenance work.

The founders would not have considered scuba instruction as "educational" except within the context of academic higher educational courses (as opposed to non-academic or physical education activity courses). It was our intent to include those undertakings that are part and parcel of the training of scientific researchers, nothing more. The educational term was aimed at including work like what I did as an undergraduate, on my study of the foraging behavior of Brant's Cormorant as a project required by the Natural History of the California Vertebrates course.

Why should educational programs that teach marine science to the public not be considered scientific?

Well ... that's not the question ... the issue is are they "scientific researchers?" I submit that they are not.

 

[Thalassamania]

On a related question, Assume somone is diving for an organization like an aquarium and the dives, such as cleaning tanks, are nominally commercial dives. Does this mean that they must be (or become) a member of the UBS union? Does it mater if they are employed or volunteers?

That's a question for human resources and the union, not for us.

What about the same question for diving that is just observational, such as underwater photography, videography, or just a buddy for someone preforming these observational tasks?

I'd suggest that the appropriate approach (and the one that we've used in the past) is to apply the same rules to the observer, buddy or photographer that are applied to the operation that they are participating in. This is not without its pitfalls, especially in multinational situations where a British photographer might be classified by his organization (BBC) as a commercial diver, but he is photographing American scientists who are working with Canadian, French and Polish colleagues off of a Russian research vessel. It can get a bit weird at times. The normal way in which these sorts of problems are handled is that all the groups involved agree, through a responsible officer, on a lead organization and the rules that are applied are those that the lead organization is subject to.

P.S. The aquarium I have volunteered at had rules set so that both scientific and OSHA standards were met for all dives so they didn't have to worry about classifications. I'm not sure how this worked, but I would have thought there were some conflicts between the two.

I don't know how one would do that, there are too many incompatable items, e.g., training requirements, medical qualification reqirements, buddy teams, stand-by divers, chambers, etc.

 

[M_Bipartitus]

... that's not the question ... the issue is are they "scientific research?" I submit that they are not.

I would think this depends entirely depend on the nature of the activity, though I'm not sure if I agree with it that way.

Consider if I were in a (large) aquarium tank observing a species for a journal article on behavior, it should be scientific. If I'm watching the behavior and discussing the behavior with a group of observers outside the tank, it's less clear. I'm still making observations and communicating them to a larger audience. Should it mater if the audience for my observations are scientists reading a journal or the general public at an aquarium? Now what if I am both preparing that article and talking to the general public?

 

[Thalassamania]

I would think this depends entirely depend on the nature of the activity, though I'm not sure if I agree with it that way.

Consider if I were in a (large) aquarium tank observing a species for a journal article on behavior, it should be scientific. If I'm watching the behavior and discussing the behavior with a group of observers outside the tank, it's less clear. I'm still making observations and communicating them to a larger audience. Should it mater if the audience for my observations are scientists reading a journal or the general public at an aquarium? Now what if I am both preparing that article and talking to the general public?

Here's the reality. Scientific diving is not a patch or a status thing, it is a definition that permits a dive team to operate under a alternative set of rules. You must either operate under the OSHA commercial diving rules, under the scientific diving rules, or partake of the recreational diving exemption. But it's not a Chinese restaurant where you get one from Column A and two from Column B, it's a prix fixe French restaurant ... all you get to choose is beef, fowl or fish and you've got to stick with your choice, no mixing allowed. If an aquarium decides that they are going to go with the scientific diving standards, that's fine, we can discuss the appropriateness of that decision, but they will need follow all the standards. While asking for irrelevant recreational credentials is still done, requiring recreational insurances, is way out of line and should not be done, insurance for the operation should be the responsibility of the institution.

 

[M_Bipartitus]

That's a question for human resources and the union, not for us.

Ok, I was told that any commercial dive required membership in that union, but it could be some local issue.

I'd suggest that the appropriate approach (and the one that we've used in the past) is to apply the same rules to the observer, buddy or photographer that are applied to the operation that they are participating in. THis is not witout its pitfalls, especially in multi-national situations where a Birtish photographer might be classified by his organization (BBC) as a commercial diver, but he is photographing american scientists who are working with Canadian, French and Polish collegues off of a Russian reseach vessel. It can get a bit wierd at times. The normal way in which these sorts of problems are handled is that all the groups involved agree, through a responsible officer, on a lead organization and the rules that are applied are those that the lead organization is subject to.

This sounds reasonable, but I guess some of the things I was thinking of are less formal. I think I'm going to start a thread in a more appropriate area of the board to discuss it.

 

[muddiver]

Please reference the Code 29 of Federal Regulations section 1910.402. Then ask me how an educational program that teaches science to the public can be can considered an activity that produces scientific research data.

 

[Thalassamania]

Please reference the Code 29 of Federal Regulations section 1910.402. Then ask me how an educational program that teaches science to the public can be can considered an activity that produces scientific research data.

OK, "how can an educational program that teaches science to the public be considered an activity that produces scientific research data?"

No ... all kidding aside, I can cite situations where more than one mission goal is being pursued at the same time, (e.g., some of Ballard's Jason Project activities). Both "real" science and public education were going on at the same time. I guess it comes down to a cart and horse question, which is in front? When you have a senior scientist from a major institution turn from his or her work to take a question from a member of the public, that person remains a scientist, when you have a non-scientist in a tank stop talking to the general public and turn to observe a fish behavior, the do not suddenly become a scientist. It's a multi-tiered test and includes not just the task but also the qualifications of the person.

 

[muddiver]

Ok, I was told that any commercial dive required membership in that union, but it could be some local issue.

Someone who does not know what the reality of the industry is is acting as an expert of something they have very little knowledge of.

Unionization is just an act of a group of workers that have decided to band together under a single employment agreement in an industry or a business that is negotiated with the employer(s) of that group, as opposed to accepting the government definition of an employment agreement.

Unionization is not legally enforcable anywhere in the U.S. This may be different in other countries.

What is a UBS union anyway?

 

[muddiver]

I would think this depends entirely depend on the nature of the activity, though I'm not sure if I agree with it that way.

Consider if I were in a (large) aquarium tank observing a species for a journal article on behavior, it should be scientific. If I'm watching the behavior and discussing the behavior with a group of observers outside the tank, it's less clear. I'm still making observations and communicating them to a larger audience. Should it mater if the audience for my observations are scientists reading a journal or the general public at an aquarium? Now what if I am both preparing that article and talking to the general public?

The problem is not the educational/psudoscientific nature of the activity, it is the activities that are not exempted under the Ferderal law. Such as feeding fish (fish husbandry), scrubbing the alge off the display and windows, reattaching the plastic coral on the fake concrete rocks. These are all maintainence activities and once a diver enters the water to do them he now falls under the requirements of OSHA, that as mentioned eairlier are contridictory to the Research Diver exemption in 29CFR1910.

I could careless, and so can OSHA, if you want to plant plastic coral in a crystal clear tank of water for $5/hr. That's your choice, but it does not meet the interpetation of the law.