Diving with a Junior Diver

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Mossman

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This post has been split from this thread http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cozumel/470217-suggest-good-dm-11-year-old-jr-cert.html in which the OP was looking for recommendations for an op for their newly certified kid. While off-topic, I thought it sufficiently interesting that it merited its own thread that can be searched.



Following up on my previous post, I have a question for you or other dive op owners. What do you do when you have a junior certified diver aged 10-11 want to dive with you, when they are required by the terms of their certification to stay shallower than 40 feet? Do they end up diving deeper with the rest of the group in violation of their certification's depth limit, do they have to do both dives at shallow sites and impact the other divers on the boat, or do they get their own charter boat?
 
When my son was a junior open water we would just do afternoon dives...typically less people and shallow dives..most the hardcore divers dive in the AM so afternoon works well.
 
I am not a shop owner, so I realize this wasn't necessarily directed at me. When we have 10 or 11 year olds come to the shop we require them to have a private divemaster. Then there are many sites where people who choose to go deeper can do so with the main divemaster, and the children (with their family if they choose) can stay shallower. That way nobody is breaking a standard or being left unsupervised, and nobody's dive is being impacted by having children on board.

I find this to be an interesting question. Every time it comes up I wonder "what about adults who simply don't wish to dive deeper than 40 feet?" We seem to have this idea that a shallow dive is a negative, and it is the responsibility of the more conservative diver to make sure they don't hold back a more aggressive diver, rather than the other way around. Why would we not consider people who wish to go to 100ft as the people who really need the private dive master, and are negatively impacting the dives of those who wish to experience a longer, more relaxed dive in a shallower depth? After all, everyone can have a great experience at a beautiful 40ft site, not everyone can be diving safely at 100ft. Just a thought.
 
Matthew, perhaps the majority of divers want to go deeper. Your solution for the private DM for the young one seems workable.
 
I would much prefer to stay in the 40-70 foot range. I enjoy long leisurely dives where I can poke through every little opening in search of little critters. My 2 favorite dives on the island are San Juan, we usually have done max depth 60 feet and Columbia Shallows. So much life and light on the shallower dives, but I do understand why folk like the deeper dives. I have no problem doing deeper dives some days as long as the others don't mind a couple of shallower dives as well over the course of a week.
 
I am not a shop owner, so I realize this wasn't necessarily directed at me. When we have 10 or 11 year olds come to the shop we require them to have a private divemaster. Then there are many sites where people who choose to go deeper can do so with the main divemaster, and the children (with their family if they choose) can stay shallower. That way nobody is breaking a standard or being left unsupervised, and nobody's dive is being impacted by having children on board.

I find this to be an interesting question. Every time it comes up I wonder "what about adults who simply don't wish to dive deeper than 40 feet?" We seem to have this idea that a shallow dive is a negative, and it is the responsibility of the more conservative diver to make sure they don't hold back a more aggressive diver, rather than the other way around. Why would we not consider people who wish to go to 100ft as the people who really need the private dive master, and are negatively impacting the dives of those who wish to experience a longer, more relaxed dive in a shallower depth? After all, everyone can have a great experience at a beautiful 40ft site, not everyone can be diving safely at 100ft. Just a thought.
Actually I was aiming my question at Christy in the other thread, but wanted input from other shops too. Thanks for the reply.

I like the shallower depths because there's more light and often more life to photograph, not to mention a longer and safer dive from less air consumption and nitrogen uptake. It's a similar dilemma when one buddy pair wants to go to Devil's Throat and the rest of the boat isn't keen on the dive for whatever reason. The difference is that the junior diver, and I particularly mean the 10-11 age range, is limited to 40' whereas the divers that want Devil's Throat don't have to do it.

However, Cozumel seems like a particular difficult place to solve the dilemma, even using a private DM, because many of the sites that put it on the map are deeper walls and rock formations, where the shallows, if any, are sand expanses at the top of the wall. If most of the divers on the boat had the deep wall drift dive experience in mind, I could imagine a bit of disappointment when told that the first and second dives will be shallow, not just today but every day that the junior diver is on the boat.

A larger operation running many boats could certainly work this out by switching divers around, but a single boat op would be obviously more hard-pressed to do so and possibly risks losing long-time customers who were expecting to go to some of the deeper sites. Again, this is a similar case to whenever there are newbies on the same boat or, as you mention, divers who simply prefer to dive shallower. Just more restrictive, I guess, especially in a deeper-oriented locale like Cozumel.

What about adults who don't wish to dive deeper than 40 ft? I'd ask them, "what the heck were you thinking when you booked a dive trip to Cozumel?" There are plenty of dive locales that are not known for their deep walls and therefore are less likely to attract divers who insist on deep wall diving.
 
Not to horn in, but if a certified junior diver is a certified junior diver, can't he do whatever he and his parents want? I thought once you had a cert, there was no 'breaking of standards' and it was all on the diver? If a DM wanted to take a JR diver to 80 feet, is he violating anything?
 
Not to horn in, but if a certified junior diver is a certified junior diver, can't he do whatever he and his parents want? I thought once you had a cert, there was no 'breaking of standards' and it was all on the diver? If a DM wanted to take a JR diver to 80 feet, is he violating anything?

True, except if the diver is 10 or 11. Good question.

"After certification, 10-11 year olds are restricted to diving with a parent, guardian or PADI Professional to 12 metre/40 feet maximum depth; 12-14 year olds must dive with an adult certified diver."
 
However, Cozumel seems like a particular difficult place to solve the dilemma, even using a private DM, because many of the sites that put it on the map are deeper walls and rock formations, where the shallows, if any, are sand expanses at the top of the wall. If most of the divers on the boat had the deep wall drift dive experience in mind, I could imagine a bit of disappointment when told that the first and second dives will be shallow, not just today but every day that the junior diver is on the boat.

Someone who knows the reef depths better than I could easily come up with a list of sites showing the upper and lower limits. Actually my Cozumel diving book does that but I can't find it. I suspect that there are multiple sites that would work for deep and shallow divers. I often spend much of a dive skimming the top of the system where I can look for turtles, eagle rays, and small stuff. Plus I can avoid some of the scary swim throughs.
 
True, except if the diver is 10 or 11. Good question.

"After certification, 10-11 year olds are restricted to diving with a parent, guardian or PADI Professional to 12 metre/40 feet maximum depth; 12-14 year olds must dive with an adult certified diver."

I think he is trying to contrast this with the "60 foot limit" on OW, and the recent discussion that after training there is no scuba police.
So do PADI standards say DMs affiliated with PADI must keep to the restriction for children in all dives, but it is only a training issue and not a general restriction for adults?

And really, there is nothing stopping a junior diver from going to 100 feet in other places (and if you search the boards you'll see parents who take jr. divers well beyond the limits). But in Cozumel, everyone has to have a DM, so that would be the only reason the restriction is 'policed'. Are there any marine park DMs who are not affiliated with an agency that has these rules (I assume they have to have some agency affiliation).
 
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