DIY converting a titanium first stage yoke to DIN...nuts?

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I guess I tend to "cheap out" on regs (if "cheaping out" means not buying top-of-the-line).
I tend to go for a robust reg that breathes great, is easy to DIY service, has good performance in cold water, and will last for decades. In 30 years, if I'm still diving, I'm sure that some newer reg technology will be available, so the reg doesn't need to last forever. :idk:
All of my regs can be prepped for use with 100% oxygen. Can your reg do that? (That's important to some folks, you know.)

Don't get me wrong. I think Atomic Aquatics makes wonderful regs. I considered purchasing one of the company's low-end regs a number of years ago.
Certainly I can see the convenience of having the manufacturing headquarters 10 miles from your house. (At some point, you might move, though.)

FWIW, once your reg is DIN-configured, any brand of spin-on DIN-to-yoke adapter should work just fine with it. Scubatoys sells 'em for about $45 each, but they aren't made of unobtanium and they don't have the Atomic Aquatics label on them. I picked up two of them used (Scubapro brand) at a local "used gear" sale for $5 each.

I suppose I just have a hard time wrapping my head around a newbie diver dropping $1600 on his first set of regs.
I apologize for the somewhat negative tone of these posts.
I just feel like a salesman, who is quite good at his job, convinced you to buy a reg that you don't really need.
 
Hehe...I know. I own my own computer consulting business (I'm in pre-retirement mode) and own my home (I live in OC...why move?).

I did about 20 hours of online research thru manufacturers websites, dive articles, reviews, forum posts, etc (reading takes time) and did a solid day of going to 4 different LDS to discuss pros/cons and future goals (they really put things in perspective for me; my goals were pretty high to begin with, they brought me back to earth). You're correct in that most posts concerning any regs on the market were usually positive, even on the low end models so I could of gone with any thing and probably been just fine. My mantra in my professional life has always been "You get what you pay for" and have seen the results of cutting corners more often than naught. Coming from a technical background, I understand longevity and fatigue on parts. I agree with your statement that something might come out later that's better, that's just the nature of the beast...I been playing that rat-race with computer gear for the last 25 years.

What can I say, I like deals...this reg which normally goes for $1600 (~$1725 after CA tax) was $1100 online (no sales tax).

I'm paying $275 to convert it to DIN as after much reading and forum posts, DIN is the hands down winner. My hope to go w/ higher pressure tanks, DINs are needed and I'm still ahead of the game.

I'm paying $175 just to convert to leftover Yoke into an adapter...ya, brass ones go for $45 new, $5 used but to phrase it creatively: "Why mess up the china set with happy meal glasses from Mcdonald's". I was at one point looking to just buy a torque wrench and the socket and change the connection myself as needed but that was just as much as this so I caved.

Worst case, I lose interest in SCUBA altogether and sell it here cheap ("Anyone wanna buy a $1600 T2x with a $440 titanium DIN-to-Yoke adapter for $500?") :-D But I'm pretty determined, don't have any other hobbies preoccupying me (besides video gaming), and my plans call for lots of vacationing at beach locales both at home and abroad.
 
@sshrum: Everyone likes a deal. I get that. FWIW, the conclusion I've arrived at, when it comes to buying scuba gear equipment, is that choosing middle-of-the-line gear is not "cutting corners." It's also not about making the trade-off between choosing safety or saving $$$. Some salesmen would lead consumers to believe that.

FYI, the vast majority of new HP steel tanks being sold in our local shops here in San Diego have a DIN/yoke convertible tank valve. Those tanks can be used with either DIN- or yoke-configured regs...so, if you plan on buying shiny new tanks, feel free to keep your regs in yoke configuration.

Strangely, at least one shop here in San Diego had an odd policy with how such HP steel tanks with DIN/yoke convertible valves can be filled with gas. Employees for that shop near La Jolla Shores (which no longer does air fills BTW) insisted that if the yoke insert were installed on convertible tank valve, then the max filling pressure would be 3000 psi. The only way I could get the shop employee to fill to the tank's service pressure (3442 psi) was to remove the yoke insert. At other shops, I never had this ridiculous problem.

If you plan on buying older "used" HP steel tanks, then you're more likely to run into 300 bar tank valves that must be used with DIN-configured regs.
But since you're so concerned with how your gear looks, chances are you won't be going down that road...

As you get more into the sport, you'll find better ways to spend your money. Since you're in SoCal and you plan on doing a fair amount of local diving, you'll probably want to get a drysuit. Staying warm is a good thing. Other expensive scuba-related expenses include: scooters, UW photography equipment, dive vacations, getting a spouse/family member involved in the sport.
 
As I indicated before...money is not an issue.

I'm fine with buying used but there isn't a used T2x out there to be bought at the moment (everybody seems to love it/wants to be buried with 'um). There was one here on Scubaboard recently (and the dewd lives in my area) and I posted to the guy and PM'd him about it but never heard back...if the dewd does get back to me within the next few weeks, I can still return the new gear and get his T2x and SSI Titanium for $800 (hell, I might just get it as a backup).

Used HP steel tanks I can find everywhere. I was looking at that those 24K gold plated models, but you got me thinking now (j/k'ing...unless you know where I can get one) :)

But to help clear the air I'll explain point-by-point:

+ Scooters: I can find a ton of these used online for $100 and up.
+ UW Photography: Eh, not really into that yet so not really a concern at the moment but when I do, money still won't be an issue.
+ Dive vacations: Dewd, it's WHY I got certified: going to Maui next month, Mediterranean in April, Australia for the summer.
+ Getting family involved: I wish I could get my wife and kid into SCUBA. Unfortunately, the wife will most likely never be able to due to medical conditions and my kid is only 12 at the moment and I offered and she said no. I'll give her a few years and when she's ready, I'll pop for her classes and when she gets certified, I'll get her a T2x too (if I haven't tried/found something more shiny...I mean...better).

I do need some input on suits and your comment about a drysuit goes against what the LDSs in my area are telling me (they're all saying a 7mm would do fine). Please let me know your take on this via PM as we've sorta strayed off-topic in the past few posts.
 
If money is not an issue, you should take a drysuit class and see if you like it. You can own both! If I had the money I would use a drysuit in socal from Oct-May on every dive. Then again, I would also be doing liveaboards every weekend.
 
+ Scooters: I can find a ton of these used online for $100 and up.
The "expensive" scooters are the fun/fast ones. You'll realize this once you demo a few different ones out there. :D
I do need some input on suits and your comment about a drysuit goes against what the LDSs in my area are telling me (they're all saying a 7mm would do fine). Please let me know your take on this via PM as we've sorta strayed off-topic in the past few posts.
Several factors impact a diver's comfort level temperature-wise underwater: individual cold tolerance, choice of exposure protection, water temp., time spent at depth (where it's coldest), activity level of diver (it's easier to stay warm if you're always kicking), ability to warm up before the next dive.

I didn't mean to suggest that you buy a drysuit right now. If you are diving regularly (weekly?) in local waters and know that you'll be diving for years to come, it might make sense for you to look into getting a drysuit. They can be expensive, though. From what I've seen here in San Diego, typically newer divers will get by with a 7mm wetsuit for as long as they can. Some hold out for 50 dives...others will last 100 or more. Drysuits enable divers to stay warm underwater and warm up quickly during surface intervals. This is key for being able to conduct repetitive dives. Divers who stay comfortable during the dive tend to seek out more opportunities to dive. I do a lot of shore dives at night year-round and having a drysuit has made it easier for me to do that. On SoCal dive boat trips, drysuit divers will usually end up doing longer and greater numbers of dives than wetsuit divers. That's just what I've observed. YMMV.

DUI is located in San Diego, so you'll see a lot of DUI suits down here.
The Whites Fusion is also a good choice.
Bare is another reputable manufacturer.
DUI and Whites will run drysuit demo days once a year at multiple locations in SoCal (San Diego, Catalina Island, LA area, etc.). Look for demo day scheduling on the manufacturer's website, contact the manufacturer directly, or ask a local dive shop that carries the merchandise.

Strictly speaking, a 7mm wetsuit is adequate for the water temps that you'll be seeing in SoCal...particularly for novice divers who run through their gas quickly and kick constantly.
Many wetsuit divers add a hooded vest for winter/spring diving.
Some companies make "semi-dry" wetsuits which incorporate wrist and neck seals that inhibit water movement in/out of the suit.
If you have the option, wetsuits made of Rubatex insulate better and last longer than some of the more modern, stretchy neoprene currently on the market.

Let me know if you have any other questions...
 
@surfinusa555: Didn't know they had drysuit classes...I'll look into that.

@bubbletrubble: I was looking at/trying on the Henderson Aqualock. The XL was too small so I have a guy bringing a XXL into my LDS so I can try it on. I can go to a drysuit but I have some general ?s:

+ What's your opinion on Waterproof, Hog, and Hollis drysuits?
+ Do drysuits have less buoyancy than wetsuits?
+ Could you still wear a drysuit in warmer conditions or would be too hot?
+ How much of your air supply does the suit usually take up on a dive?
+ Maintenance-wise, what kind of overhead am I looking at to keep the suit leak-free?
+ I read a post somewhere about undetectable leaks...how much could it cost to have a LDS plug a leak?
+ I was checking out prices & tech suits aren't much more than the regular drysuits (a couple hundred). What are the pros/cons of a regular "sport" drysuit vs a tech suit?
+ Is a drysuit more resilient than a wetsuit (in that wetsuits lose insulation over time)?
+ What sort of "wear and tear" issues come into play with a drysuit?
+ If I was to take care of the suit and get one with good material doing half beach-entry/half boat dives, how many dives would the suit last roughly?
+ How heavy is the typical complete drysuit (boots, hood, gloves, suit, undergarments, etc) total?

I'm going to see my dive guy tomorrow and I'll look over their drysuit selection.

Thanks.
 
I went to Waterproof's website recently and found that their dry suit that I see most on the web was about $3000 IIRC. A HOG will run a little over a $1000 and up and I could not say for the Hollis. I went to a dive shop today that sells Hollis gear but at 11:21 AM I had to leave when the owner/manager did not show at 11:00 AM to open as shown on the "Hours of operations" board in the window. :shakehead: The Waterproof suit looked pretty rugged. I know one person on here that dives a White Fusion and they like it real well.
 
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+ What's your opinion on Waterproof, Hog, and Hollis drysuits?
I don't have any personal experience with those brands.
+ Do drysuits have less buoyancy than wetsuits?
Too many variables to consider: composition of drysuit material, thickness/material composition of drysuit undergarment, etc.

You need to do a proper in-water weight check to determine your minimum weighting requirements for your chosen exposure suit configuration.

Most of my friends have needed more lead when transitioning from wetsuit to drysuit.
+ Could you still wear a drysuit in warmer conditions or would be too hot?
Depends on your temperature tolerance and the type of drysuit (shell vs. neoprene/crushed neoprene vs. hybrid). Shell drysuits offer very little inherent insulation. Varying the undergarment can enable the diver to wear the shell drysuit in a fairly wide range of water temps. I wear my shell drysuit year-round in water temps ranging from high 40s to mid 60s (°F). Since I bought my drysuit for local diving (San Diego) several years ago, I can count the number of my local wetsuit dives on one hand. For me, drysuit diving in our SoCal conditions is just more comfortable.
+ How much of your air supply does the suit usually take up on a dive?
Negligible. This is really a non-issue. Gas consumption has a lot to do with how comfortable/relaxed a diver is in the water. After you figure out how to use the drysuit properly (10-20 dives), you'll realize that staying warm underwater translates into being comfortable/relaxed. The limited amount of gas you use to offset drysuit squeeze contributes to buoyancy (much like adding air to your BCD) and helps you stay warm. On the rare occasion that I find myself doing a wetsuit dive, there's always a time during the dive when I get annoyed with how cold I get. This is followed by a noticeable increase in gas consumption, feeling somewhat uncomfortable, and cutting the dive short. With my drysuit + appropriate undergarment + drygloves, I can do my typical 80-90 minute local dives in water temps in the 50s very comfortably.

When I initially switched over to a drysuit, I found that my gas consumption improved significantly. YMMV.
+ Maintenance-wise, what kind of overhead am I looking at to keep the suit leak-free?
A new suit should remain service-free for at least 1-2 years. The manufacturer should cover the cost of any unexpected leaks in that time frame.

Seal replacement will probably be the most common service procedure. DUI has a nifty ziploc-style (ZipSeal) wrist/neck system that is user-replaceable. The Whites Fusion has the Si-Tech system which allows user-replacement of seals. Seal material can be neoprene (lasts hundreds of dives but more prone to leakage), latex (more water-tight but degrades more quickly -- replace seals once a year or once every few years), or silicone (very comfortable, more expensive; newest on the market so not sure how well they hold up over time, probably longer than latex). Figure out which kind of seal you want and then we can talk about the cost to replace them. User-replaceable seals re generally the way to go. Prices vary considerably.

The most expensive part to repair on the drysuit is the dryzipper. You need to take care of it. Properly maintained, the zipper should last several hundred dives. Expect to pay $300+ for labor and parts for dryzipper replacement.

Inflater and exhaust valves are fairly easy to replace. You should get at least a couple hundred dives out of each if you take care of them. Some people get several hundred dives out of each. Replacements run $50-$100 each and are a straightforward DIY repair.

After several hundred dives, you may have to send in your suit for seam reinforcement or fixing small holes in the material. Cost of the repairs will vary based on the issue.
+ I read a post somewhere about undetectable leaks...how much could it cost to have a LDS plug a leak?
A new drysuit (less than 1 yr. old) with undetectable leaks should be sent back to the manufacturer for repair or outright replacement.

Most local dive shops don't offer drysuit repair services. The vast majority send drysuits back to the manufacturer or contract the job to another company that specializes in drysuit repair. The drysuit owner also has the option of going directly to the specialty drysuit repair shop or resorting to DIY repair.

Method of repair will depend on material composition of the drysuit. For example, pinholes in my Bare shell drysuit can be fixed readily with Aquaseal. In contrast, holes in my friend's Whites Fusion can be fixed with a heated patch kit sold by Whites.

You can always send out your drysuit for pressure-testing to find difficult-to-locate leaks. Cost of pressure-testing runs $40-$80.
+ I was checking out prices & tech suits aren't much more than the regular drysuits (a couple hundred). What are the pros/cons of a regular "sport" drysuit vs a tech suit?
Tech suits typically have a more abrasion-/puncture-resistant outer material. Although this makes the suit more durable, it usually comes with a heavier weight. Such materials might also take longer to dry. A simple bilam or trilam "sport" shell drysuit works great for shore and boat dives here in SoCal.
+ Is a drysuit more resilient than a wetsuit (in that wetsuits lose insulation over time)?
With respect to strictly insulation issues...
Wetsuit neoprene crushes at depth and re-expands upon return to the surface. Over time, such crush-expansion cycles decrease the insulating capacity of the wetsuit. With a shell drysuit, you don't have this issue at all. After a few hundred dives, you might consider buying new undergarments. Undergarments require washing every now and then, and some materials lose insulating capacity with each wash.
+ What sort of "wear and tear" issues come into play with a drysuit?
Beyond what I've already mentioned, you kind of need to avoid putting your suit in situations where it can get punctured. Crawling over sharp rocks is a no-no. Letting pets chew on the drysuit material when it's drying isn't a good idea. I'd warn you against kneeling on sharp rocks/urchins underwater, but you aren't doing that anyway, right? :D
+ If I was to take care of the suit and get one with good material doing half beach-entry/half boat dives, how many dives would the suit last roughly?
Several hundred dives. With the proper maintenance, you're only limited by how long the shell material and seams hold up. Some manufacturers warranty the seams for life. I have a buddy who has logged 500+ dives on his DUI TLS. Another buddy has put 400+ on his Bare. I've put 300+ on my Bare Nex-Gen. Another friend has put a 200+ dives on her Whites Fusion.
+ How heavy is the typical complete drysuit (boots, hood, gloves, suit, undergarments, etc) total?
Too many variables to consider. The "sport" drysuits are fairly lightweight and travel-friendly. Rockboots range from fairly light to heavy.
Undergarments are fairly lightweight.
Neoprene hood should weigh a little less than the standard wetsuit hood since it doesn't have the tuckable flap at the base of the neck.
You can wear wetsuit gloves with a drysuit, although drygloves work great and are worth the expense ($100-$160; the outer glove for my dryglove system [Viking Bayonet] may be replaced with a cheap $5/pr.).
 
Lots to take in...thanks for the info (I'm sure all that typing took some time).

I'm usually pretty good about maintaining my gear and like to be able to repair it myself (I'm a tool junkie) plus I have no patience for shipping to-and-back unless I really have to. $40-$80 seems reasonable for pressure testing as long as it's not something that is going to occur every 20 dives or so (but that really depends on my diving style, I guess)

Thanks again...I'll hit you up later with more drysuit questions after I get a chance to research it more in depth.

DUI is doing their demo this weekend (Dec 3-4) on Catalina (unfortunately, I've two family events to attend) :-S Whites website doesn't show any dates (they haven't posted the 2012 calendar) but Corona Del Mar would be great for me: Sport Diving Events - Whites Diving - Whites Diving

I went thru this thread comparing DUI to Whites...seems like A LOT of ppl love Whites: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/exposure-suits/285731-whites-fusion-vs-dui.html

Just found out Waterproof is based out of Long Beach...need to check them out to tomorrow. Scuba.com in Irvine is a authorized rep so I'll head over there too.
 
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