DM or Master Diver????

[HammerNoMore]

James, Are you a PADI instructor?

Among others.

As I recall (I'd need to walk out to the garage to look it up), SAC is covered in the deep diving chapter of the AOW text. Obviously even PADI doesn't think that it's a "tecnical only" piece of knowledge. PADI just stops short of applying it to nay real gas management calculations. they also stop short of making the students demonstrate that they can apply that knowledge to a real dive.

As mentioned, there are many ways to manage your gas without knowing your SAC rate. It's a tool, as are experience, the rule of thirds, etc. You don't have to take Deep or dive deep to be a master diver. Some people do thousands of dives and never go deep.

I think it's well established in this thread that the term master is just a lable and does not carry the same connotations as it does in some fields, such as "chess master" or "master sommelier". My point is that it makes no sense to pick 1 arbitrary point such as SAC rate to determine who is and who is not a master diver.

The question, and I assume from the way it was asked that the OP is a PADI diver, is wether to go MD or DM. The answer is that one is a card and the other has some training involved.

The ongoing discussions as to the value of both are somewhat germain to the initial topic, however a big hoopla over wether knowing SAC rates should/shold not be required to become a master diver really are way off topic.

James

 

[Thalassamania]

I think it's well established in this thread that the term master is just a lable and does not carry the same connotations as it does in some fields, such as "chess master" or "master sommelier". My point is that it makes no sense to pick 1 arbitrary point such as SAC rate to determine who is and who is not a master diver.

And why do you think this situation obtains?

The question, and I assume from the way it was asked that the OP is a PADI diver, is wether to go MD or DM. The answer is that one is a card and the other has some training involved.

The answers, and I think that they were quite germane to the initial OP, were overwhelmingly to the effect that PADI Master Diver is a Joke and as a result not recommended.

The ongoing discussions as to the value of both are somewhat germain to the initial topic, however a big hoopla over wether knowing SAC rates should/shold not be required to become a master diver really are way off topic.

I brought SAC rate into the discussion because of a post in another forum, at that same time, by a PADI Master Diver who did not know what a SAC rate was. That post was illustrative to the foregoing concept, nothing more, and nothing less. You were the one who raised, "a big hoopla." And now you want to disassociate yourself from it?

 

[mheaster]

To start with, I am PADI certified. I hold both a Master Diver and Divemaster Certifications. I earned both last year. (The Master Diver pre-requisite Specialties, inadvertently began many years before!) I hold the Divemaster Certification in a theorectically higher spot, much more distinguished than the Master Diver.

The Master Diver is as most have described, a Card. Complete the basics: OWD, AOWD, Rescue Diver (Very Good Course!) and then five PADI Specialty Diver certifications. This just broadens your scope of experiences and opens the door for more great dive experiences! it is quite possible to discover an area of Diving that you are truely infatiated by (i.e. photography, Deep, wreck. etc.)

I had previously earned Deep Diving, Equipment Maintenance, Nitrox, and Cavern Specialties. I took the Boat Diving Specialty with the distinct intent to finish off my Master Diver and just to receive the Ego-Driven Card as many have called it. Hey, i am a self admitted Ego-Maniac! I try at times, to hold it in check but....

It is VERY possible to become a PADI Master Diver and have ONLY made one "Deep" Dive! (AOWD requires a 60 foot "deep" dive).

The Divemaster Course is the first step towards becoming a PADI Dive professional. As such it is much more than just a C Card! I was amazed by the depth of the theory and the time and effort required in Independednt Study. Like any other endeavor in life, I am sure there are some who approach this as a light-hearted endeavor and just squeeze by and eventually are granted a certification and then go out and do the very best they can to discredit others who have studied and worked very hard to accomplish the same level of certification yet actual exemplify the idea of a Divemaster. (The poor Divemasters display bad habits, questionable judgement and display themselves as poor Role Models.) This is unfortunate but happens in all fields, (Doctors, Nurses, Academics etc.)

Find yourself a qualified Instructor and/or Divemaster that walks the walk AND talks the talk and sets the Role Model that you might like to emulate and then sign up for any/all follow on course that you feel the desire to pursue.

I very strongly strongly feel that you can learn great information and skills from ANY follow-on course if you have a good Instructor! You can learn a lot and become a better Diver by taking the Divemaster Course EVEN if you never plan to "Work" as a Divemaster; however you will be a Divemaster none-the-less, representing the remainder of us Divemasters, so do your best to exemplify what you have learned!

We are ALL examples to somebody! Are we setting good examples, or are we setting POOR examples?

 

[DivingCRNA]

For those making fun of the PADI Master Diver cert, Consider this:

It motivates at least some divers to expand their diving knowledge and experience. It also helps support the dive industry, whose existence allows you all to dive more. Most of those that make fun of the master diver cert are all for learning more, but it would seem that the learning has to be done their way.

As my sig states, I am almost done with the master diver cert. Will I ever use the card for anything? No-my AOW and nitrox cards are much more useful. Does it define me as a better diver? No-I could be a bubble blowing rototiller or the next john Chatterton/Richie Kohler/pick your dive hero as far as anyone knows. Does it get me free footrubs on transatlantic flights? No. But it gave me more of a reason to get out and dive in the cold, dark midwestern lakes and quarries of fly over land.

If I lived on or near the ocean I probably would not have bothered because the diving alone would be interesting enough to keep going out there. But the master diver cert gave me a reason to dive and have some fun. When I am done with Rescue Diver I may even start down the tec track for my diving. Then I can be just as cool as the Master Diver bashers. Actually cooler, because I won't be taking time and energy to bash recreational divers who are fulfilling the purpose of the sport-TO HAVE FUN! I may even do dive master, if I think it will be fun-you never know!

Can we chill out on the Master Diver stuff now?

 

[HowardE]

It also helps support the dive industry, whose existence allows you all to dive more.

Getting Certs helps support dive agencies, not the industry. Diving from local dive ops helps the dive industry... Buying gear, from authorized LDS' helps the industry. Taking courses helps PADI, NAUI, SSI, whomever.

Again - I'm Not saying that taking courses is bad for everyone... just my opinion.

 

[BiggDawg]

Getting Certs helps support dive agencies, not the industry. Diving from local dive ops helps the dive industry... Buying gear, from authorized LDS' helps the industry. Taking courses helps PADI, NAUI, SSI, whomever.

Okay, a typical PADI OW course costs $250 - $300 (let's just say, for the sake of discussion, it's $250).

Of that, PADI gets $35 for a C-Card.

Seems that the LDS and/or instructor split the rest ($215), along with equipment rentals and boat fees (another $100 or more?).

Then, there are books and other materials. The LDS gets their markup on that (another $20?).

And, of course, if the newly certified continue to dive, then it's the industry, not PADI, who see that money (all of it). They couldn't "help the industry" this way without the cert.

So, yes, getting certs helps the industry as a whole, just like DivingCRNA said.

Um, by the way, aren't the certification agencies part of "The Industry," too?

 

[HowardE]

Okay, a typical PADI OW course costs $250 - $300 (let's just say, for the sake of discussion, it's $250).

Of that, PADI gets $35 for a C-Card.

Seems that the LDS and/or instructor split the rest ($215), along with equipment rentals and boat fees (another $100 or more?).

Then, there are books and other materials. The LDS gets their markup on that (another $20?).

And, of course, if the newly certified continue to dive, then it's the industry, not PADI, who see that money (all of it). They couldn't "help the industry" this way without the cert.

So, yes, getting certs help the industry.

Um, by the way, aren't the certification agencies part of "The Industry," too?

Sure... Since you like so much to analyze my posts to death... How's this perspective? The agencies are part of the industry. But do they really need so much support? Is PADI hurting for business, or is the small local dive shop that is struggling to survive more in need of the business.

If instead of taking an "underwater naturalist" course, or a "shark diver specialty" or a "night diver specialty" just dive, and pay the op for the dives. You'll get a lot more diving in, and gain valueable experience from just diving and practicing.

 

[BiggDawg]

Sure... Since you like so much to analyze my posts to death... How's this perspective? The agencies are part of the industry. But do they really need so much support? Is PADI hurting for business, or is the small local dive shop that is struggling to survive more in need of the business.

If instead of taking an "underwater naturalist" course, or a "shark diver specialty" or a "night diver specialty" just dive, and pay the op for the dives. You'll get a lot more diving in, and gain valueable experience from just diving and practicing.

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that some posts were off limits to replies.
My bad. You should have put up the automatic: "Don't Reply to My Post" symbol: :furious: .

As DivingCRNA pointed out, "continuing education" certifications are ways of motivating some divers to continue to dive, to practice, to improve, under the watchful eyes of an instructor.

And, of course they pay the LDS for that priviledge, a lot more than the cert. agency gets. The "small local dive shop that is struggling to survive (and is) more in need of the business" is the one who gets the business. This is a marketing tool for just that shop (though, if they can't figure that out, there is no wonder they are small and struggling).

Hey, don't post if you don't want some one to reply.

 

[HowardE]

I'm sorry. I didn't realize that some posts were off limits to replies.
My bad. You should have put up the automatic: "Don't Reply to My Post" symbol: :furious: .

As DivingCRNA pointed out, "continuing education" certifications are ways of motivating some divers to continue to dive, to practice, to improve, under the watchful eyes of an instructor.

And, of course they pay the LDS for that priviledge, a lot more than the cert. agency gets. The "small local dive shop that is struggling to survive (and is) more in need of the business" is the one who gets the business. This is a marketing tool for just that shop (though, if they can't figure that out, there is no wonder they are small and struggling).

Hey, don't post if you don't want some one to reply.

I just notice that you in particular take what I say in a negative light.

I am suggesting that continuing education may not be all that it's cracked up to be. That many people can excel on their own just as good as or even better than under instruction. Relying on instructors too much, can often inhibit divers, and they may not realize their full potential otherwise. Some people rely too much on their instructors, and often are afraid to dive on their own.

Don't get all agro on me... It's just a pleasant conversation... I'm not getting upset, I don't know why you should.

 

[DivingCRNA]

Getting Certs helps support dive agencies, not the industry. Diving from local dive ops helps the dive industry... Buying gear, from authorized LDS' helps the industry. Taking courses helps PADI, NAUI, SSI, whomever.

Again - I'm Not saying that taking courses is bad for everyone... just my opinion.

So, how could there be a dive industry without certifying agencies????

People also buy more gear when they take courses. Compasses, lights, better regulators, wheels, computers, spearguns, reels, lift bags, lots of expensive photography and video equipment,etc...