Dm5

[Happy Trails]

Using a Zoop, Mac OS 10.10.5, latest version of DM5 and the latest MONO and USB driver, Suunto cable. I have set Gatekeeper to "anywhere". I am unable to establish a connection.

Your suggestions please.

 

[Chicken SCUBA]

Hendrik,

I'm on DX and my wife is on a D6i. We are using DM5 (1.2.42) on a Macbook Air OS X 10.10.4. We are somehow unable to figure out how the planning tool in DM5 works and how the plans are transferred to the DX/D6i. We can create plans but we are unable to understand how the dive computer interprets the plans.

Let's say we would be able to transfer a plan to the dive computer. How do we tell the dive computer we want to dive the plan? What happens if there is deviations from the depth/bottom time in the plan? When planning the dive in DM5 the surface interval and tissue saturation has to be taken into consideration. How do we do this? Is there any detailed manual available on how to use DM5 planning tool in all its details?

Brgs,
Morten

Ok I can shed some light on some of your questions. Lets start with a useful one, the tissue saturation. When your create to consecutive dive plans in DM5 the time interval between them and the residual saturation is taken into account so you can create to dive profiles and then just change the date/time of them until you get no saturation warnings and the bottom time you want on the second, third... dive. That will give you an idea of the minimum surface time needed, assuming you don't deviate on the first dive ext.

As for the rest of your questions let me start by saying that I'm not to familiar with the d6i or the DX but I'm pretty sure it works the same as the helo and the EON. Transferring a dive plan is a misnomer. Your only transferring the gasses and tank sizes, which for a tech dive will normally be 2-3 different gasses and tank sizes and could be up to 10. After you spend possibly hours fooling around to figure out the gasses that will not only do the job but allow you to loose at least one of the tanks and still make it back, you can imagine the relief that you can transfer them into your computer without having to spend 15+ minutes programming it manually with a 3 button interface. It does not transfer or use the profile (graph) in any way. It doesn't direct you based on your selected bottom time/depth. You still have to set those alarms manually, at least on the devices that I've been playing with.

Sorry if that is disappointing.

---------- Post added September 15th, 2015 at 07:46 AM ----------

Using a Zoop, Mac OS 10.10.5, latest version of DM5 and the latest MONO and USB driver, Suunto cable. I have set Gatekeeper to "anywhere". I am unable to establish a connection.

Your suggestions please.

I'm not running your version of OS 10 and I don't even know what Gatekeeper is but maybe you will find this useful anyway. Even on it's best day my Zoop is a fickle B... Even though I've downloaded from it on many occasions I still have to go into PC, plug the cable into the Zoop, plug it into the PC, wait, pull it out and back in, wait, pull the cord off the Zoop and back on, wait and if that hasn't done the trick then I quite PC mode and start all over again.

Usually it will connect during one of the, at least 60 second, "wait"s but I've had to do the whole cycle up to 3 times before.

Good luck and if you figure out the issue with you particular Mac OS X combo make sure to post it.

 

[Hendrik@Suunto]

Hi,

I'm on DX and my wife is on a D6i. We are using DM5 (1.2.42) on a Macbook Air OS X 10.10.4. We are somehow unable to figure out how the planning tool in DM5 works and how the plans are transferred to the DX/D6i. We can create plans but we are unable to understand how the dive computer interprets the plans.

Let's say we would be able to transfer a plan to the dive computer. How do we tell the dive computer we want to dive the plan? What happens if there is deviations from the depth/bottom time in the plan? When planning the dive in DM5 the surface interval and tissue saturation has to be taken into consideration. How do we do this? Is there any detailed manual available on how to use DM5 planning tool in all its details?

Brgs,
Morten

Morten, sorry for the late respond: Chicken Scuba kindly answered most of your questions already: Unfortunately there is only a basic help file available... You'll find it among the tabs. So yes, the main function of the planner is to figure out reasonable profiles and surface intervals, calculating gas consumptions etc... The transfer concerns the gases only and won't be dictating the dive. Please keep in mind that you'll need to set some parameters for a legit plan first (you'll find this part in the help file)

Using a Zoop, Mac OS 10.10.5, latest version of DM5 and the latest MONO and USB driver, Suunto cable. I have set Gatekeeper to "anywhere". I am unable to establish a connection.

Your suggestions please.

In that case please contact support@suunto.com since they have more resources to check on this.
Oftentimes it's some personal settings or other drivers that are interfering with ours. It's correct that it might take some time to connect but it's usually not a matter of several attempts and it's unlikely to be Zoop-specific since the interface is the same as for all big display devices (beside EON).

br Hendrik

 

[Bastianhund]

Reply to Chicken Scuba and Hendrik,

As much as the answers to my questions are disappointing I for sure appreciate you replies. Thanks for your contribution.

I purchased the DX approx. 1.5 years ago and was tricked to do so by the dealer who promised me I could set the last deco stop depth to fit the actual diving conditions. IMHO a very important feature for a technical dive computer intended for use on OW deco dives. When I found out this was simply not possible I was of course really disappointed. The explanation from Suunto was that a last deco stop at 6 meters would not work with the algorithm. It is my impression the DX and the DM5 uses the same algorithms for decompression calculations(?) In the DM5 planning tool I can set last deco stop to 3, 4.5 and 6 meters? What is the purpose of this feature in DM5 if I can't do the same in the DX? This is an important thing as we all know not being between the very narrow deco floor and deco ceiling impact hang times. Please elaborate on this issue.

Thanks,
Morten

 

[Chicken SCUBA]

Reply to Chicken Scuba and Hendrik,

As much as the answers to my questions are disappointing I for sure appreciate you replies. Thanks for your contribution.

I purchased the DX approx. 1.5 years ago and was tricked to do so by the dealer who promised me I could set the last deco stop depth to fit the actual diving conditions. IMHO a very important feature for a technical dive computer intended for use on OW deco dives. When I found out this was simply not possible I was of course really disappointed. The explanation from Suunto was that a last deco stop at 6 meters would not work with the algorithm. It is my impression the DX and the DM5 uses the same algorithms for decompression calculations(?) In the DM5 planning tool I can set last deco stop to 3, 4.5 and 6 meters? What is the purpose of this feature in DM5 if I can't do the same in the DX? This is an important thing as we all know not being between the very narrow deco floor and deco ceiling impact hang times. Please elaborate on this issue.

Thanks,
Morten

Ok here are some important quotes from the manual:

YOUR ACTUAL ASCENT TIME MAY BE LONGER THAN DISPLAYEDBY THE INSTRUMENT! The ascent time will increaseif you:• remain at depth• ascend slower than 10 m/min / 33 ft/min or• make your decompression stop deeper than at the ceilingThese factors will also increase the amount of breathing gas requiredto reach the surface.

Rather than requiring you to make stops at fixed depths, the dive computer lets youdecompress within a range of depths (continuous decompression).

When conditions are rough, it may be difficult to maintain a constant depth near thesurface. In such cases, it is more manageable to maintain an additional distance belowthe ceiling, to ensure that the waves do not lift you above the ceiling. Suunto recommendsthat decompression takes place deeper than 4 m/13 ft, even if the indicatedceiling is shallower.

So what is the point of that function you ask. Well it is there so that if you think you might need to stay down deeper you can see what the effect will be on your dive time. You should be able, at all times to stay at the the floor depth and avoid the rough surf. You can even decompress deeper if your air allows. Even though your computer is showing that you are not in you decompression window it will still track your off gas and adjust your deco time. I've never tried it but it is supposed to work that way. Hendrik can you check me on that one please?

 

[Bastianhund]

There is something which do not fit together here. It is the concept of "continues decompression" and this quote from the DX manual "The floor is the deeptest depth at which the decompression stop time will not increase. Decompression will start when you pass this depth during your ascent." and finally "Suunto recommends that decompression takes place deeper than 4 m/13 ft, even if the indicated ceiling is shallower"

How can Suunto recommend to do deco deeper than 4 meters when Suunto on the same time states that the deco time will not count down if the diver is not above the floor?

I believe (subject to confirmation from Suunto) that the concept of "continues decompression" means nothing more than than the computer will predict your current total ascend time based on what it know at any given time stamp during the dive (depths, times and gasses being the main factors influencing the deco profile). Should the diver choose to do anything but ascending to above the deco floor/below the deco ceiling then the computer will calculate a new ascend time. The diver could obviously choose just to stay where he/she is, descending or just ascending to a depth below the deco floor. No matter what the "continues decompression" calculation just gives a new predicted ascend time.

Case story: I have done several decompression dives where my deco profile has been continuously calculated by a Vyper. The Vyper would also tell me (e.g.) 45 min to the surface assuming I am sticking to the above floor/below ceiling rule etc.. On several dives the deco station was placed around 6-5 meters and I was required to to my last stop at that depth. The consequences were that the deco time would not count down (because I was below the deco floor) and if it did count down 1 minute would actually be 5 minutes instead. So a predicted 45 minutes ascend time at depth may turn into 90 minutes or just infinity. Needless to say this impacts gas management, exposure to cold, dehydration etc.. In combination dangerous situations all together. My solution was to breath down my tanks, ascend and violate decompression requirements (well knowing I have done more than enough deco) and then remove the battery from my Vyper on the surface (clearing all errors and tissue compartment loading) so I'll be ready to dive with a "clean" computer for the next dives. I can promise the readers this thread that a Vyper computer will penalize a diver not sticking to the above floor/belove ceiling rules. I have given up on deco diving since I got the DX. This is because I believe the DX is nothing better than the Vyper when it comes to adapting to real-world diving conditions. Yes the algorithms are new in the DX. Yes you can use multiple gasses with the DX. Yes you can go CCR with the DX....but that's about it. I do not believe there is much product improvement coming from a 20 year old Vyper and up to the DX. It seems like the majority of Suunto dealers and distributors don't know about this. Suunto support staff certainly also do not know about this. Disclaimer: I do not know about the capabilities of the EON Steel. So what Chicken Scuba has actually never tried (see above post) I have quite a lot experience with.

I was told by Suunto (when discussing how to set last deco stop depth in the DX) the firmware cannot be upgraded. I do not know of this is completely true. Maybe it just cannot be upgraded by the user. In the DX menu the user can find information about the firmware version. Why would Suunto care to share this information the menu if the firmware cannot be upgraded anyway? I somehow hope Suunto would offer us DX users a firmware upgrade which would allow for setting last deco stop depth and thereby allow the DX (and other D-models) to give better estimates on total ascend time when the diver has already decided before starting the dive the last stop is at 6 meters.

Cheers,
Morten

 

[nemis]

I have 3 dive plans I want to delete, but I can't figure out how I delete them from DM5. Is it difficult?

 

[Bastianhund]

Try to right click on the dive plan in the menu on the left side of your screen. You should then get an "Delete" option.


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[Chicken SCUBA]

not[/U] count down (because I was below the deco floor) and if it did count down 1 minute would actually be 5 minutes instead.

That sucks. I'm glad we're talking about it now before I end up trying it. It's not how I thought it should work.

 

[Bastianhund]

It came to my attention that the DX works with something called "ceiling area". This appears to be the ceiling and 4ft/1.2m below the ceiling. The "Floor" appears to be actually even deeper than this. This is actually good news as the deco range (max and min. depth where deco can take place is much larger than I initially claimed. I take of course full credit for not have read and understood the DX manual. I can't even claim it comforts me knowing I'm not the only one who do not understand/understood this.

However it still remains to be clarified what the impact is on the (at depth) total predicted ascend time would be should the diver choose to (1) the deco near the floor or (2) near the ceiling. I still believe there could an issue here.

/Morten