Dm5

[KenGordon]

Deco is usually faster shallower. The floor will be far below the ceiling so you can chose to deco rather deeper than the ceiling but that will cost time and gas.

I was in the process of replying to your earlier post with an example 50m for 20 minutes on 21/35 deco'ing on 100% planned with DM5. Adding or removing a 10m 'pause' for 20 minutes does not change the shallow deco time' although some will move from 6m to 3m, it stays at 21min. On air as a bottom gas it drops from 16min to 12min.

Thus you can conclude the floor is below 10m for that dive.

Changing the last stop depth obviously makes no difference on 100% as a deco gas, however if the deco is done on air it increases from 29 minutes to 46.

I always plan with a realistic last stop depth, usually 6m as the seas in the UK are rarely flat. Thus I know I have enough gas to do the deco at 6. Once the ceiling gets to 3 on the computer I may move up to 4 or 5m.

I do not care what the time to surface on the computer is showing when I am in the bottom phase of the dive as I know I have enough gas as I planned it in DM5 before getting in the water. On the way up I care about the ceiling, gas switches and deep stops. Once at 6m I start to care about the time to surface. Typically I deco on something like 70% so the difference between 3 and 6m is not as marked as on air (17 to 21minutes in this example).

That is all a bit verbose, just try out different scenarios in DM5 and get a feel for the numbers.

 

[Hendrik@Suunto]

Hello everybody,
I hope I can cover some of the questions here. Please remind me should I have missed any...

How can Suunto recommend to do deco deeper than 4 meters when Suunto on the same time states that the deco time will not count down if the diver is not above the floor?

So, floor and ceiling define the deco range. When doing the last stop (safety stop) it will have a fixed range of 6m (floor) to 3m (ceiling). When reaching this depth range (=passing 6m) decompression will take place and the time will count down accordingly. The general recommendation is to stay close to the ceiling since deco is most effective there (ceiling minus about 1m). Only when condition don't allow this it is recommended to stay deeper although a ceiling of 3m is displayed. So at 4m you're well above floor, thus I don't see a contradiction here...

I believe (subject to confirmation from Suunto) that the concept of "continues decompression" means nothing more than than the computer will predict your current total ascend time based on what it know at any given time stamp during the dive (depths, times and gasses being the main factors influencing the deco profile). Should the diver choose to do anything but ascending to above the deco floor/below the deco ceiling then the computer will calculate a new ascend time. The diver could obviously choose just to stay where he/she is, descending or just ascending to a depth below the deco floor. No matter what the "continues decompression" calculation just gives a new predicted ascend time.

The concept of continues decompression basically means that there are no fixed deco stops. So when you hit deco you'll get a ceiling which is continuously changing depending on how you proceed instead of a fixed stop at a certain depth. The only stops that do have a fixed depth are deep stops (depending on the profile) and safety stops (3-6m). This does not necessarily mean that your ascent is continues too. You may reach the ceiling faster than it decreases but the point is that it continuously decreases during your ascent while 3m mark the shallowest ceiling depth... or vice versa that it continuously increases should you not ascend or even descend. The advantage is that it allows you to further ascend while the deco is progressing instead of making you stay at a defined depth and then sending you to the next one.
The asc time then predicts the minimum time needed for ascending based on the current situation incl. ascending to the ceiling at 10m/min, time needed at the ceiling, possible deep and safety stops... it obviously increases should the diver choose not to ascend but it's not the core of the concept


Morten, regarding your dives I'd be interested in the logs should you be willing to share those. I'll send you am PM.

I was told by Suunto (when discussing how to set last deco stop depth in the DX) the firmware cannot be upgraded. I do not know of this is completely true. Maybe it just cannot be upgraded by the user. In the DX menu the user can find information about the firmware version. Why would Suunto care to share this information the menu if the firmware cannot be upgraded anyway? I somehow hope Suunto would offer us DX users a firmware upgrade which would allow for setting last deco stop depth and thereby allow the DX (and other D-models) to give better estimates on total ascend time when the diver has already decided before starting the dive the last stop is at 6 meters.

It can not be upgraded by the user but it's basically possible. Your suggestion is noted and I will forward this accordingly.

br, Hendrik

 

[hanna.mikalsen]

Hi Hendrik.

I have just purchased Vyper, and was really looking forward to using it, especially since I already use movescount with my Ambit3. So yesterday when I brought it home, I was eager to connect it to my mac (Os X el Capitan 10.11.1) and get to know it before todays dive. But DM5 didn't conect with my Vyper. It simply read that no devices were connected. After a lot of searching, I found a page (Suunto DM4 Dive Computer Software for Mac |) that had the software for DM4. I downloaded it as instructed on the page, and DM4 found and connected my Vyper immediately. It did ask me if I wanted to upgrade to DM5, but I pressed "No". But after my dive today, when I tried to open DM4, it wouldn't let me move past pressing "no", so now I can't use DM4 anymore. I tried rebooting, deleting and downloading once more, but nothing worked. I also tried the same with DM5, but no matter what I do, it does not find my Vyper. And yes, I have followed the correct steps to connect the Vyper.
Do you have a "fix" for DM5, Vyper and Mac?

I really hope you do, movescount and connectivity was the sole reason I chose, and payed extra, for the Vyper.

Sincerly, Hanna.

 

[Chicken SCUBA]

Hanna,You should try deleting the Mono framework that DM4 & 5 use and reinstalling. Here is one of the many links on how to do that: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6405225?start=0&tstart=0You may also try finding and deleting the Application data first. It contains the settings for the programs and doesn't get deleted when you delete or uninstall a program. Once you find it you can simply delete it and it will be recreated when you run DM4 again.Good luck,

 

[hanna.mikalsen]

Hanna,You should try deleting the Mono framework that DM4 & 5 use and reinstalling. Here is one of the many links on how to do that: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6405225?start=0&tstart=0You may also try finding and deleting the Application data first. It contains the settings for the programs and doesn't get deleted when you delete or uninstall a program. Once you find it you can simply delete it and it will be recreated when you run DM4 again.Good luck,

Hi Chicken SCUBA.
I actually managed to do what you described, sadly it didn't work.
This message comes up in the "mono terminal" or what it's called:
"hanna-sesselja-mikalsens-maskin-7:~ hannasesseljamikalsen$ /Applications/SuuntoDM4.app/Contents/MacOS/SuuntoDM4 ; exit;

(SuuntoDM4:3846): Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library.
Using the fallback 'C' locale."

This comes up when I try to open the DM4. And then it displays the same message, forcing me to either download DM5, or close DM4 by pressing no to upgrade. DM5 still can't connect to my Vyper.
Any other suggestions?

The terminal now reads:
[ERROR] FATAL UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: System.Xml.XmlException: Unexpected XML declaration. The XML declaration must be the first node in the document, and no white space characters are allowed to appear before it. Line 102, position 9.
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.Throw (System.Exception e) <0x9834308 + 0x0007f> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.Throw (System.String res, System.String arg) <0x9833ee0 + 0x0009b> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.ParsePI (System.Text.StringBuilder piInDtdStringBuilder) <0x9833958 + 0x0011f> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.ParsePI () <0x9833928 + 0x0001b> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.ParseElementContent () <0x78f2b0 + 0x000b3> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.Read () <0x78a608 + 0x00043> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlTextReader.Read () <0x78a5e8 + 0x00016> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlWriter.WriteNode (System.Xml.XmlReader reader, Boolean defattr) <0x68d3288 + 0x002fb> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlReader.ReadOuterXml () <0x68d26d8 + 0x00146> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.SectionInfo.ReadData (System.Configuration.Configuration config, System.Xml.XmlReader reader, Boolean overrideAllowed) <0x68d2240 + 0x0025f> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.SectionGroupInfo.ReadContent (System.Xml.XmlReader reader, System.Configuration.Configuration config, Boolean overrideAllowed, Boolean root) <0x68d1bf0 + 0x002a9> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.SectionGroupInfo.ReadData (System.Configuration.Configuration config, System.Xml.XmlReader reader, Boolean overrideAllowed) <0x68d6250 + 0x0005b> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.SectionGroupInfo.ReadContent (System.Xml.XmlReader reader, System.Configuration.Configuration config, Boolean overrideAllowed, Boolean root) <0x68d1bf0 + 0x002a9> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.SectionGroupInfo.ReadRootData (System.Xml.XmlReader reader, System.Configuration.Configuration config, Boolean overrideAllowed) <0x68d1ba0 + 0x0003f> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.Configuration.ReadConfigFile (System.Xml.XmlReader reader, System.String fileName) <0x78a2e0 + 0x001db> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.Configuration.Load () <0x7861f0 + 0x000f3> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.Configuration.Init (IConfigSystem system, System.String configPath, System.Configuration.Configuration parent) <0x785d28 + 0x00163> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.Configuration..ctor (System.Configuration.InternalConfigurationSystem system, System.String locationSubPath) <0x785578 + 0x00123> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.InternalConfigurationFactory.Create (System.Type typeConfigHost, System.Object[] hostInitConfigurationParams) <0x784ea8 + 0x0006b> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.ConfigurationManager.OpenMappedExeConfiguration (System.Configuration.ExeConfigurationFileMap fileMap, ConfigurationUserLevel userLevel) <0x9833748 + 0x000a4> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.CustomizableFileSettingsProvider.LoadProperties (System.Configuration.ExeConfigurationFileMap exeMap, System.Configuration.SettingsPropertyCollection collection, ConfigurationUserLevel level, System.String sectionGroupName, Boolean allowOverwrite, System.String groupName) <0x9833380 + 0x0003b> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.CustomizableFileSettingsProvider.GetPropertyValues (System.Configuration.SettingsContext context, System.Configuration.SettingsPropertyCollection collection) <0x6aa8ae0 + 0x0017f> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.LocalFileSettingsProvider.GetPropertyValues (System.Configuration.SettingsContext context, System.Configuration.SettingsPropertyCollection properties) <0x6aa8ab8 + 0x00021> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase.CacheValuesByProvider (System.Configuration.SettingsProvider provider) <0x6aa85b8 + 0x001f5> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase.GetPropertyValue (System.String propertyName) <0x6aa8338 + 0x0006f> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase.get_Item (System.String propertyName) <0x6aa8298 + 0x00043> in <filename unknown>:0
at Suunto.Diving.Bll.ApplicationSettings.get_IsFirstRun () <0x6aa8248 + 0x0001b> in <filename unknown>:0
at Suunto.Diving.Bll.ApplicationSettings..ctor () <0x6aa6808 + 0x00043> in <filename unknown>:0
at Suunto.Diving.DM4App..ctor () <0x6aa4ac0 + 0x000d3> in <filename unknown>:0
at Suunto.Diving.UI.DM4AppHelper.Instance () <0x6aa2998 + 0x00037> in <filename unknown>:0
at MainWindow..ctor () <0x6a9ee38 + 0x00053> in <filename unknown>:0
at Suunto.Diving.UI.MainClass.Main (System.String[] args) <0x780ef0 + 0x00197> in <filename unknown>:0
logout
Saving session...
...copying shared history...
...saving history...truncating history files...
...completed.

[Prosess utført]

 

[KenGordon]

Hi Chicken SCUBA.
I actually managed to do what you described, sadly it didn't work.
This message comes up in the "mono terminal" or what it's called:
"hanna-sesselja-mikalsens-maskin-7:~ hannasesseljamikalsen$ /Applications/SuuntoDM4.app/Contents/MacOS/SuuntoDM4 ; exit;

(SuuntoDM4:3846): Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library.
Using the fallback 'C' locale."

This comes up when I try to open the DM4. And then it displays the same message, forcing me to either download DM5, or close DM4 by pressing no to upgrade. DM5 still can't connect to my Vyper.
Any other suggestions?

The terminal now reads:
[ERROR] FATAL UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: System.Xml.XmlException: Unexpected XML declaration. The XML declaration must be the first node in the document, and no white space characters are allowed to appear before it. Line 102, position 9.
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.Throw (System.Exception e) <0x9834308 + 0x0007f> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.Throw (System.String res, System.String arg) <0x9833ee0 + 0x0009b> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.ParsePI (System.Text.StringBuilder piInDtdStringBuilder) <0x9833958 + 0x0011f> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.ParsePI () <0x9833928 + 0x0001b> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.ParseElementContent () <0x78f2b0 + 0x000b3> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlTextReaderImpl.Read () <0x78a608 + 0x00043> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlTextReader.Read () <0x78a5e8 + 0x00016> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlWriter.WriteNode (System.Xml.XmlReader reader, Boolean defattr) <0x68d3288 + 0x002fb> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Xml.XmlReader.ReadOuterXml () <0x68d26d8 + 0x00146> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.SectionInfo.ReadData (System.Configuration.Configuration config, System.Xml.XmlReader reader, Boolean overrideAllowed) <0x68d2240 + 0x0025f> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.SectionGroupInfo.ReadContent (System.Xml.XmlReader reader, System.Configuration.Configuration config, Boolean overrideAllowed, Boolean root) <0x68d1bf0 + 0x002a9> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.SectionGroupInfo.ReadData (System.Configuration.Configuration config, System.Xml.XmlReader reader, Boolean overrideAllowed) <0x68d6250 + 0x0005b> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.SectionGroupInfo.ReadContent (System.Xml.XmlReader reader, System.Configuration.Configuration config, Boolean overrideAllowed, Boolean root) <0x68d1bf0 + 0x002a9> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.SectionGroupInfo.ReadRootData (System.Xml.XmlReader reader, System.Configuration.Configuration config, Boolean overrideAllowed) <0x68d1ba0 + 0x0003f> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.Configuration.ReadConfigFile (System.Xml.XmlReader reader, System.String fileName) <0x78a2e0 + 0x001db> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.Configuration.Load () <0x7861f0 + 0x000f3> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.Configuration.Init (IConfigSystem system, System.String configPath, System.Configuration.Configuration parent) <0x785d28 + 0x00163> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.Configuration..ctor (System.Configuration.InternalConfigurationSystem system, System.String locationSubPath) <0x785578 + 0x00123> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.InternalConfigurationFactory.Create (System.Type typeConfigHost, System.Object[] hostInitConfigurationParams) <0x784ea8 + 0x0006b> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.ConfigurationManager.OpenMappedExeConfiguration (System.Configuration.ExeConfigurationFileMap fileMap, ConfigurationUserLevel userLevel) <0x9833748 + 0x000a4> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.CustomizableFileSettingsProvider.LoadProperties (System.Configuration.ExeConfigurationFileMap exeMap, System.Configuration.SettingsPropertyCollection collection, ConfigurationUserLevel level, System.String sectionGroupName, Boolean allowOverwrite, System.String groupName) <0x9833380 + 0x0003b> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.CustomizableFileSettingsProvider.GetPropertyValues (System.Configuration.SettingsContext context, System.Configuration.SettingsPropertyCollection collection) <0x6aa8ae0 + 0x0017f> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.LocalFileSettingsProvider.GetPropertyValues (System.Configuration.SettingsContext context, System.Configuration.SettingsPropertyCollection properties) <0x6aa8ab8 + 0x00021> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase.CacheValuesByProvider (System.Configuration.SettingsProvider provider) <0x6aa85b8 + 0x001f5> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase.GetPropertyValue (System.String propertyName) <0x6aa8338 + 0x0006f> in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Configuration.ApplicationSettingsBase.get_Item (System.String propertyName) <0x6aa8298 + 0x00043> in <filename unknown>:0
at Suunto.Diving.Bll.ApplicationSettings.get_IsFirstRun () <0x6aa8248 + 0x0001b> in <filename unknown>:0
at Suunto.Diving.Bll.ApplicationSettings..ctor () <0x6aa6808 + 0x00043> in <filename unknown>:0
at Suunto.Diving.DM4App..ctor () <0x6aa4ac0 + 0x000d3> in <filename unknown>:0
at Suunto.Diving.UI.DM4AppHelper.Instance () <0x6aa2998 + 0x00037> in <filename unknown>:0
at MainWindow..ctor () <0x6a9ee38 + 0x00053> in <filename unknown>:0
at Suunto.Diving.UI.MainClass.Main (System.String[] args) <0x780ef0 + 0x00197> in <filename unknown>:0
logout
Saving session...
...copying shared history...
...saving history...truncating history files...
...completed.

[Prosess utført]

This reads like some XML file may be corrupt in your DM4 installation. Experience tells me that is maybe 10% likely to be the real cause and some incompatibility between DM4, the version of the Mac OS and mono is the real problem. This may be compounded by potential for conflicting dependencies on the nasty USB to serial port device drivers required for the download cable.

I suggest disconnecting the download cable (first to avoid auto install of drivers), deleting all version of dm4 and 5 from your machine, trying hard to remove any drivers associated with them. Next methodically reinstall DM5. If you want to try DM4 do it first. If you install DM5 then you will probably kill DM4. I suggest not messing about with DM4 and concentrating on DM5. It is failing due to driver versioning issues with the cable. Do you have any other devices which use these nasty USB to serial things? If so uninstall those.

I generally like Suunto and the DMx software is ok, however whoever thought it was ok to use mono for this really needs sacking. It lets them share code between the windows and Mac versions but at considerable support cost and pain for their customers.

 

[Hendrik@Suunto]

Hi Hanna,
I'm sorry for the inconvenience this has caused already. In this case it's best to get in touch with support@suunto.com. Please provide them with a thorough description and the error message that gets prompted. They'll be able to determine the specific problem and provide alternatives, e.g. an alternate mono framework...
Let me know should this be of no success though...

br Hendrik

 

[hanna.mikalsen]

Hi Hanna,
I'm sorry for the inconvenience this has caused already. In this case it's best to get in touch with support@suunto.com. Please provide them with a thorough description and the error message that gets prompted. They'll be able to determine the specific problem and provide alternatives, e.g. an alternate mono framework...
Let me know should this be of no success though...

br Hendrik

Hi again.
Suunto Support has not been able to help me. This is really messed up. I reply them every time, and they cannot come up with one single thing that helps.
There is no error message, that is the problem, the DM5 does not read my vyper at all. Is does not send any error message, it simply does not read it.

 

[Hendrik@Suunto]

Hi,
I see. So you're able to open DM5 though and it's on the latest version (=no update prompted)? Just not connecting? You said you're owning an Ambit too... please disable Moveslink and try to connect the Vyper. Also some other programs that access devices via USB may be worth disabling just to rule out interferences.

What's the ticket number you've got?

br Hendrik

 

[afdgf]

My wife is able to download all of the dives from her d4i to DM5, but it always get stuck on the processing the dives at 20%. I never gets beyond 20%. She is using version 1.2.46.6004 of DM5 on a windows 7 professional 64 bit machine. How do we deal with this? Should she send an email to support@suunto.com? TIA