do "undeserved" hits happen

[Mr Carcharodon]

Who said there were no undeserved hits? Sounds like a strawman.

 

[knowone]

lol, I dove with that group Akimbo... we cured that prior to beginning every dive. I still can cure any hangover in 30 minutes or less, guaranteed.

30 minutes in a chamber on O2, drinking a large bottle of Pedialyte.

Well I have the O2 the baking soda the sugar and the salt
But how do I squeeze more than my head into my gear testing chamber, so I go diving instead?

I follow pretty good procedures and have never been concerned with taking a hit and certainly have never been subjected to an obvious one however the lack of differentiation between mild symptoms and general exertion niggles and fatigue have lead me on some occasions to breathe O2 between dives and quite often in the car on the way home.
Breathing a higher percentage of O2 than is contained in air 100% leads to less post dive fatigue despite what has been discussed regarding Nitrox of late.
I would wager my left testicle.

Good practice is to take out my reg at traffic lights and when I see cops.


I definately do not subscribe to the if I am following procedure will never happen to me DCS what will they say syndrome as that is another sickness independant of the one being discussed.

 

[knotical]

Unexpected hits do occur. Unexpected because the diver followed an accepted model, adjusted for such things as exertion, cold, etc. Fortunately such hits are usually relatively benign.

afaik all models rely to some extent on probability, and sometimes the ends of the distribution curves happen.

And some divers apparently have found out they had PFOs after they experienced an unexpected hit.

 

[Akimbo]

…30 minutes in a chamber on O2, drinking a large bottle of Pedialyte.

I know the chamber ride on O2 works… but the thought of Pedialyte makes me want to puke in my BIBS mask.

 

[Crush]

Who said there were no undeserved hits? Sounds like a strawman.

Your reference to "strawman" implies to me that you are suggesting that my original post was designed to create the illusion of having refuted a reasonable proposition by in fact substituting for that proposition some superficially similar yet non-equivalent proposition. Put another way, you are suggesting that I am being dishonest. If you had had the desire to know the truth you could have PM'd me. Instead I will PM you with a link to one such post. After reading it I'd like to hear whether or not you continue to believe in your strawman hypothesis.

 

[Troutmaster]

Good practice is to take out my reg at traffic lights and when I see cops.

If I saw you I would probably pull you over, but just because I want to know how your dive was.

BTW, I use a non-rebreather medical mask when I am driving home and I get a tingle.

 

[Troutmaster]

I couldn't disagree more with what you said.

If something bad happens to you, it happens for a reason. You may not know or understand what the reason is ... but that doesn't mean it's just bad luck, or your day to get bent, or the tooth fairy made you do it, or whatever imaginary excuse you can come up with. It happened for a reason.

There are way more variables involved in decompression than your dive computer or table is designed to handle. Your computer, your tables, your "ascent system" knows nothing about your physiology, your age, your health, your fitness level, what you had to drink last night, how much sleep you got, or a whole raft of other things that affect your body's ability to offgas efficiently. It doesn't know how hard you exerted yourself during the dive or whether you are dressed appropriately for the water temperature ... do you have any notion what happens to your circulation when you get cold?

Hits happen for a reason ... that's what people mean when they say there are no "undeserved" hits. The more you learn about decompression the more you realize your body's ability to offgas without notable symptoms of DCS is determined by a complex interrelation of variables that your computer or dive table simply doesn't consider.

Dive tables and computers work for one simple reason ... because they have so much conservatism built into them that they reduce the risk to an almost infinitesimally small number ... but it is not, and never will be, zero.

Every time you get in the water there is a finite chance that you will get bent. By virtue of the fact that you made a conscious decision to go diving, if you get bent it is because you put your body in a place where such an effect was possible. In that respect, it is not "undeserved" ... you just gambled and lost.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I think we actually agree, I just stated it poorly.

The divers I am refering to are the ones who blindly follow the tables or computer as if it were holy writ "knowing" everything will be alright if they do so because there are no "undeserved" hits.

I agree ABSOLUTLY that hits happen for a reason. Some because we don't take into account all of the variables we know about (hydration, fitness, cold, excersion). Some because there are variables we DON'T know about. I was defining "undeserved" hits as more "unexplained" hits.

So if we use your definition of "undeserved" hit than I agree, there are none. If we use my definition, I think you will agree, there are some.

You are a pretty resourceful guy. I bet if you tried you could disagree with me more

 

[farsidefan1]

Having personal experience with the subject matter I'll just add that the research to discover more of the varieables is ongoing. I'm participating in one of them. Hopefully we can get a better handle of the "unexplained" hits.

 

[vladimir]

In summary, do truly "undeserved" DCS hits happen, or can the diver always be blamed?

If not semantics, ethics. Do "deserved" hits not happen? Should we punish them for it?

--knowone


:joke:

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think we actually agree, I just stated it poorly.

The divers I am refering to are the ones who blindly follow the tables or computer as if it were holy writ "knowing" everything will be alright if they do so because there are no "undeserved" hits.

I agree ABSOLUTLY that hits happen for a reason. Some because we don't take into account all of the variables we know about (hydration, fitness, cold, excersion). Some because there are variables we DON'T know about. I was defining "undeserved" hits as more "unexplained" hits.

So if we use your definition of "undeserved" hit than I agree, there are none. If we use my definition, I think you will agree, there are some.

You are a pretty resourceful guy. I bet if you tried you could disagree with me more

If we chose to call them "unexplained" rather than "undeserved" then I think we'd find there's less of a reason to disagree ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)