Do you pay double just to support LDS?

[ColdH2O]

The only thing wroing is you're living in bubble or something.

You think I'm the one living in a bubble? You are the one comapring real estate to diving! How can you compare 2 houses in 2 different neighbourhoods and think they should be priced the same, you are way out too lunch! There are a lot of factors that determine a houses price, obviously you are not aware of this! Your analogy has to be one of the worst I have ever heard! If you want to go off on a completely different tangent then go somewhere else please!

What? I said please didn't I?

 

[repete66211]

It seems the more moving parts something has the more likely it'll be bought at the LDS. BC, computer, regs, wetsuit, mask are all purchased at the LDS. Fins, snorkel or anything without moving parts can be found online. Wetsuits and masks can go either way.

 

[Seraphimx]

I find that this explanation makes absolutely no sense. In a business sense.

Why should you pay more in your equipment price for the rent, compressor insurance and rest?

Don't you pay the compressor in the Air Filling/Rental?
Don't you pay the insurance/instructor when you have to PAY for CLASSES?

The way for a business to be competitive is to analyse what makes money and what doesn't. What people are willing to pay more for and less for.

Separate you business in sector. Gear, Classes, Rentals. Each needs to be self-sufficient, if you have to take the gains from somewhere to block a loss in another place, something's not right.

As an example. If you treat your customers like crap but you have a lower price for scuba classes. Do you think they will still take scuba lessons at your place? No

Price needs to be guided by more than your spendings. Why do you think people buy Apple computers even if they are more expensive. Because they want a trouble free solution.


It is understandable to be a bit higher but 100% that is retarded.

I support my LDS but I'm not ok with paying more for a product. Also 100% is a bit steep, 600$ for an air integrated computer? That's a bit low. Even if you LDS is selling at 800$ you have to think. 600$ + Shipping + Import Fees (for 600-700$ they would be 50$)

I now go to a small Scuba shop. The guy sells tech gear and he teaches me some neat stuff all the time, still his price is always 100-200$ over the internet price for gear on LP. Because he doesn't care if he sells or not.

Why if I'm Machiavellian did I buy from his shop? Not because I pity him.

Because it was best for me monetarily and selfishly. If I buy from him, I get :
1) Instant Tech Support
2) Lifetime Warranty from SP (40$/year)
3) He tells me what would be a better buy not what makes him more $.
4) I can try the gear and I'm sure it fits me.

Some LDS fare better than others, and looking at my region the two that are doing great are starting to go Online. Business is always evolving and fluctuating.

A website that sells buy itself costs around 20k/year, that's like one employee per year. Basically you are paying for one person to sell your stuff non-stop 24/7, no annoying behavior and no paid vacation. Yes, you won't be able to sell your regs online (SP or AL) but at least you'll be able to sell enough accessories and other stuff that you'll make a small profit out of it.

Things aren't black or white, but always a shade of gray.

Also, I don't think there will ever be a time when ALL LDS will close.
Those who will evolve will stay, does who don't will fall.

(BTW, I can count 8 dive shops (that I know) that are in a 15-20min travelling time) Those are only the ones I know, there are many more, IS THERE REALLY SUCH A NEED FOR THAT MANY LDS?

If there are too many LDS it's normal some will go.


--------------------------------------------------------

For Frisco 23, I live in Canada and I tell you. Shipping and Customs from the States are going to be a pain in the butt. Find someone who will sell it at 200$ more expensive and you'll be a winner.

600$ + 100$(shipping) + 100$ warranty = 800$ = WIN

My plain opinion

Be sure to tell your LDS that you couldn’t care less how much it costs to keep a 300,000 thousand dollar compressor running, or the cost of changing filters or the up front costs or storing the O2 needed to make the Nitrox, or the rental tanks or the 30,000 dollar initial buy on spare parts to service customer and rental dive equipment. Oh and make sure that that you tell them that you don’t want to pay to keep their staff on hand or the rent or insurance to keep their doors open or the pool clean.

When a student walks through the front door wanting an OW dive course you should think about what he or she is getting for the 250 or what ever the going rate is today. The instructor pays several hundred a year into insurance, or maybe the shop pays it for him, remember that the gear used in training has a value of a couple of thousand maybe, BC, tanks, an assortment of weights and belts, regulators that work properly even though they are regularly abused by students that don’t yet know better. Remember the cost of getting to the dive site and the time involved in the teaching of the class and the time to make the dives with students, both pool and open water. To make a profit on dive classes it would be logical that the classes cost thousands, not hundreds, make sure you tell the LDS that this is not your problem and that you don’t want to pay for any of this…

Think about how much it is going to cost to have you own compressor and all the associated filters and storage banks and how much it is going to cost to trailer all this to the dive sites because when you kill off the LDS that is what you are going to have to do.

Just sayin…

 

[k ellis]

(BTW, I can count 8 dive shops (that I know) that are in a 15-20min travelling time) Those are only the ones I know, there are many more, IS THERE REALLY SUCH A NEED FOR THAT MANY LDS?

here localy where I live I have found 2 full scale dive shops in the immediate Tulsa area. Other then these 2 shops there is not really one to speak of for about 45 minutes to 1 hour drive time or better.

One thing is and I am only going to state factually that there are mixed feelings among divers for these 2 shops. One thing that is important to both shops being able to steam ahead is they sale totaly diffrent brands of dive equipment.

Both shops teach a few diffrent agencies. 1 teaches TDI tech and for recreation is a dedicated PADI shop and the second teaches SSI and Padi. This makes somewhat simple when people want to go with a diffrent agency and this also helps a little to keep both afloat.

now public opinion is just what it is. People get an opinion and stick with it. If you were to ask people what they thought about either shop some would say it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Others would demonize it.

There were as many as 4 shops back a few years ago but I think that the number of people willing to give up hundreds more for the piece of mind of warranty and good face to face sales has really strained the community here to the point that there really is not a large enough customer base who wants to buy in store to justify keeping all 4 shops open.

Now I am not going to bad mouth either shops here because they are both good at what they do I just think that when it comes to the internet there is so much more to it then a price diffrence that pushes people to buy from there.

Take for example some people (myself included) just dont really like to spend 3.50 an overpriced gallon of gas to drive across town and window shop at products I really am just wanting to look at (As we all know this is one reason we end up walking out with gear is we find that gear we decide we have to have). For no gallons of gas and 24 hours a day we can type a few simple words into a search bar and we can see all the latest gear and get descriptions and even reviews from people who actually own them.

Another consideration is alot of places dont have a walmart style scuba shop. You go in and you say I want this item and the owner replies " I can order it for you and it will be here in 2 weeks for 800.00" You go home type in an online site and you can have it in 4 days on your door step for 500.00. That in itself is a major factor too. Why order something you have to drive to the shop to pick up for 300.00 more when you can order it yourself for 300.00 less and wait for the door bell in 1 week less then it will take to get to the shop?

What it you want to compare an aqualung product to say a mares product (Just hypothetical) well your local dealer may only stock one or the other. With the click of a mouse you can compare them in 2 seperate windows on your computer.

Internet is killing LDS for a lot of reasons besides cheaper prices on the product themselves. Convenience of products.

ease of navigation through the web store and many diffrent products while sitting in your bottom expander desk chair. There are many times the owner tells you every reason you need that $1000.00 regulator but you can read other owners reviews online and learn about how that regulator has a heriditary problem the LDS conveniently did not tell you about too. Imagine buying a brand new regulator that has a problem with failure (Before the manufacture would recall the product and hopefully they would)

these are a few more things LDS must compete with and these are all difficult to compete with when the oil industry is stealing from the american people.

 

[Firefyter]

Another thing.

From what I know most online sellers are also brick and mortar shops.
Leisure Pro has a store in NYC, Scubatoys has a regular store in TX, North East Scuba Supply has a walk in store, Dolphin Scuba Center in Sacramento sells online and has a great store.

You're absolutely right. That's another thing that's getting really tiresome in this argument. Every small LDS whines about the overhead, and how hard it is to compete. If you really want to see overhead, take a look inside Scubatoys. I've been there many, many times, and I can assure you their overhead would make most of the whiners faint. Get with the business model, or get out.

 

[tac747]

I would pay 10% to 15% more at a LDS than online just to keep my money in the LOCAL economy instead of sending it off to New York or wherever it goes but I will also not buy products that are not made in he US (unless I cannot find a product that is still made here) . So far that has not been an issue since the products I want and have researched are not any cheaper ( 5%-7%) on the internet than they are a my local store. Sure some shops gouge you when you walk in the door and try to buy from them but it seems I have gotten lucky and found one that doesn't.

 

[vshearer]

Be sure to tell your LDS that you couldn’t care less how much it costs to keep a 300,000 thousand dollar compressor running, or the cost of changing filters or the up front costs or storing the O2 needed to make the Nitrox, or the rental tanks or the 30,000 dollar initial buy on spare parts to service customer and rental dive equipment. Oh and make sure that that you tell them that you don’t want to pay to keep their staff on hand or the rent or insurance to keep their doors open or the pool clean.

When a student walks through the front door wanting an OW dive course you should think about what he or she is getting for the 250 or what ever the going rate is today. The instructor pays several hundred a year into insurance, or maybe the shop pays it for him, remember that the gear used in training has a value of a couple of thousand maybe, BC, tanks, an assortment of weights and belts, regulators that work properly even though they are regularly abused by students that don’t yet know better. Remember the cost of getting to the dive site and the time involved in the teaching of the class and the time to make the dives with students, both pool and open water. To make a profit on dive classes it would be logical that the classes cost thousands, not hundreds, make sure you tell the LDS that this is not your problem and that you don’t want to pay for any of this…

Think about how much it is going to cost to have you own compressor and all the associated filters and storage banks and how much it is going to cost to trailer all this to the dive sites because when you kill off the LDS that is what you are going to have to do.

Just sayin…

Actually they make owning a compressor very cost effective.

 

[vladimir]

Any LDS could have done this if they had the foresight and business sense to see where the market was going and the type of gear that online buyers buy.

I suspect that LeisurePro had the advantage of considerable experience, through Adorama, in dealing in gray-market goods from overseas sources. That is a level of sophistication beyond the typical LDS operator--even a smart one. He'd have to suddenly go from managing his window display to managing his currency exposure. He has to create a website and optimize it for search engines. He needs to be able to bank overseas, deal with import duties, etc. Or he needs to find a different niche--that's the smart thing to do now, in my opinion--compete on some other basis besides price. As long as that "other basis" is not browbeating and pleading with people on Scubaboard to pay more for fungible goods; that is not a long-term strategy for success.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I suspect that LeisurePro had the advantage of considerable experience, through Adorama, in dealing in gray-market goods from overseas sources. That is a level of sophistication beyond the typical LDS operator--even a smart one. He'd have to suddenly go from managing his window display to managing his currency exposure. He has to create a website and optimize it for search engines. He needs to be able to bank overseas, deal with import duties, etc. Or he needs to find a different niche--that's the smart thing to do now, in my opinion--compete on some other basis besides price. As long as that "other basis" is not browbeating and pleading with people on Scubaboard to pay more for fungible goods; that is not a long-term strategy for success.

Leisure Pro was around before the internet. I remember them having multi page ads in the back of Skin Diver and Rodale's magazines.
They gladly sent out a thick catalog if you called them and asked for one.
Those catalogs weren't free to them and neither were the multi page ads. I would imagine that was quite a chunk. Rents in NYC aren't cheap either. They also have people working there.
So for some people to say that internet dealers like Leisure Pro and others don't have any overhead is a bunch of BS.
The people running LP just happen to be extremely sharp business people in the business capital of the US. They decided early on to either go big or go home.

Maybe if the small pissed off LDS's would put all that energy they waste on being pissed off about the internet into something more productive like improving their business model and attitude so they too could survive.

Or maybe it's too late for many of them?
Whatever it is, it's not my fault some people are sharp business people and some are not. I have no control over that. Wasting extra money trying to support a failing local LDS isn't going to make them suddenly savvy business people. All it's going to do is make me broke and prolong their misery.

 

[Mike]

Leisure Pro was around before the internet. I remember them having multi page ads in the back of Skin Diver and Rodale's magazines.
They gladly sent out a thick catalog if you called them and asked for one.
Those catalogs weren't free to them and neither were the multi page ads. I would imagine that was quite a chunk. Rents in NYC aren't cheap either. They also have people working there.
So for some people to say that internet dealers like Leisure Pro and others don't have any overhead is a bunch of BS.
The people running LP just happen to be extremely sharp business people in the business capital of the US. They decided early on to either go big or go home.

Maybe if the small pissed off LDS's would put all that energy they waste on being pissed off about the internet into something more productive like improving their business model and attitude so they too could survive.

Or maybe it's too late for many of them?
Whatever it is, it's not my fault some people are sharp business people and some are not. I have no control over that. Wasting extra money trying to support a failing local LDS isn't going to make them suddenly savvy business people. All it's going to do is make me broke and prolong their misery.

I missed it where somebody said internet based sellers don't have any overhead.

I'm guessing that since you are categorizing an internet seller as "sharp business people" and a LDS as the "some are not" that you never step foot in a LDS, look or try anything on and then go buy in online, cause it sounds like you only support "sharp busines people" (internet sellers) and obviously you'd only be dealing with them and be ignoring the LDS.

I'm guessing probably not. Like most, lots of talk, very little anything else. Pretend to be a savvy shopper and blame LDS for bringing everything upon themselves for being unsavvy business people, while you keep on using their inventory that you can touch and feel for your own benefit.

Too many hypocrites in this world.