Do you pay double just to support LDS?

[Eric Sedletzky]

I missed it where somebody said internet based sellers don't have any overhead.

Do a search, you will find plenty of people who have said ID do not have the overhead of the LDS.

I'm guessing that since you are categorizing an internet seller as "sharp business people" and a LDS as the "some are not" that you never step foot in a LDS, look or try anything on and then go buy in online, cause it sounds like you only support "sharp busines people" (internet sellers) and obviously you'd only be dealing with them and be ignoring the LDS.

Anybody who sees the future and seizes a new technology that can boost business 100 fold I classify as more business savvy than somebody who sits there feeling sorry for themselves bitching about it, especially when they both had the same opportunity.
But you are wrong about me not setting foot into an LDS. There are a few LDS's that I patronize and some that have failed me and lost me as a customer because of their attitudes more than their pricing structure. I do not go into LDS's to try stuff on then buy it online. I know what I want and many of my gear selections are not found in most LDS's.

Typical scenario:
I have gone into an LDS to buy something to find out they are out or don't stock the item. They say they can order it. OK I say then order it. I even ask if they need full payment or a deposit. No they say we'll cover it. OK fine. Weeks go by no product. Where's my stuff? Oh we forgot to order it, we'll get right on it. Two more weeks go by no product, where's my product. Oh, we have to wait until we have a minimum order from that supplier so we can get free shipping. OK thank you please cancel my order I'll figure out something else. I go online, a dealer has the exact thing I want, I have it in a week or less at a great price, no shipping, and UPS brings it to my door.
That's customer savvy.

One of my LDS's is a Scubapro dealer. I rebuild my own regs now. I ask if there's anyway I can get a parts kit for a MK2/R190. No way!!!
I go to North East Scuba Supply, they sell kits.
So in your world I go to the LDS and spend $40 for $4.00 worth of parts and pay them $65 to spend 10 minutes to put the stuff in? And this is supposed to be annually. :shocked2:
I have 8 reg sets.

Hey man if you have money to burn that's your gig. I do not.
I know you love you LDS's and that's great. I have not had such good luck.

 

[Mike]

Do a search, you will find plenty of people who have said ID do not have the overhead of the LDS.


Anybody who sees the future and seizes a new technology that can boost business 100 fold I classify as more business savvy than somebody who sits there feeling sorry for themselves bitching about it, especially when they both had the same opportunity.
But you are wrong about me not setting foot into an LDS. There are a few LDS's that I patronize and some that have failed me and lost me as a customer because of their attitudes more than their pricing structure. I do not go into LDS's to try stuff on then buy from LDS's. I know what I want and many of my gear selections are not found in most LDS's.

Typical scenario:
I have gone into an LDS to buy something to find out they are out or don't stock the item. They say they can order it. OK I say then order it. I even ask if they need full payment or a deposit. No they say we'll cover it. OK fine. Weeks go by no product. Where's my stuff? Oh we forgot to order it, we'll get right on it. Two more weeks go by no product, where's my product. Oh, we have to wait until we have a minimum order from that supplier so we can get free shipping. OK thank you please cancel my order I'll figure out something else. I go online, a dealer has the exact thing I want, I have it in a week or less at a great price, no shipping, and UPS brings it to my door.
That's customer savvy.

One of my LDS's is a Scubapro dealer. I rebuild my own regs now. I ask if there's anyway I can get a parts kit for a MK2/R190. No way!!!
I go to North East Scuba Supply, they sell kits.
So in your world I go to the LDS and spend $40 for $4.00 worth of parts and pay them $65 to spend 10 minutes to put the stuff in? And this is supposed to be annually. :shocked2:
I have 8 reg sets.

Hey man if you have money to burn that's your gig. I do not.
I know you love you LDS's and that's great. I have not had such good luck.

You make some good points. I apologize for calling you a hypocrite. You seem to be the exception to the rule.

I think where you are running into the problem is because you see some retail dive equipment in a dive shop you project on them that they should focused on being a retail dive equipment seller and every moment of every day is spent figuring out how to sell more retail equipment.

With few exceptions most dive shops I believe look at retail equipment sales as a secondary or minor part of their business. Most dive shops I know focus on diver training and carry some retail equipment to supplement their gross sales. They don't look at equipment sales as their primary focus. They price the stuff for what they need to get out of it and there you go. If you like it, it's right here in your hands, you can try it on, even take it in the pool maybe and make sure it's right. If it's good you buy it and take it home with you.

Are they the most 'savvy' retailers out there? No, but I think divers are more focused on thinking they are supposed to then the dive shops care to be.

 

[dolesorchard]

Our LDS is very competitive on price. I bought two new computers last summer and was shocked that they were significantly cheaper than any of the online stores. There is another shop nearby that will tell you outright that they will meet online pricing, buit they don't have the same selection of the other shop.

 

[aussie82]

I happen to like both dive shops in my area. I know both the owners and all the staff. I have demoed (sp?) all sorts of gear from both of them. The problem I run into is that they generally have to order stuff in.

Thraz I don't live in victoria but can name and have been to all the dive shops you mentioned. Your fortunate that you have the competition in the area and the wide selection of gear.

I do buy both at the LDS and online. I have had great experiences with Mike at dive right in scuba as far as online goes. I will always look online first to get an estimate of the cost.

Aussie


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[BDSC]

I usually try to buy from my LDS but for some reason they seem to want to drive me away. I ask them to order me a QD hose. A few weeks go by and I call them. They said they are going to check on it and call me back the next day. Never did. A few more weeks go by and I stop by and same story. They will check on the order and call me back tomorrow. Weeks went by again. I order from LP on a Monday morning and I have it at my door on Wednesday. Also, I just ordered something from ScubaToys this morning and it's already shipped. That's service!

On another similar note, I have been told by another LDS that I am killing his travel business because I won't book trips thru him but instead I get a group of friends together and book our own travel. He was furious when he found out that the dive resort we are going to next gave us a 10% discount and we got the free spots as well. He said that resorts should go back to the "old days" when only dive shops got those perks. He doesn't seem to understand that resorts have to do what they can to fill up rooms. We are a seasoned group of divers that don't need to pay "full price" to go on a dive trip so someone from the shop can go for free.

The internet has not only changed the way we can buy gear but how we travel as well. I like the "new way" better!

 

[chile7236]

our LDS is usually pretty close to online prices so it's a wash...instant gratification for $20 or so more than online is worth it.

 

[Seraphimx]

LDS don't need to be retailers to have success. I think people want the "ALL IN ONE" system. (Personally I don't like it, but I understand its appeal)

There's an LDS here in Montreal who's pretty big and they have an Online Store.

They are retailers.
They have classes. (They have a complex next to a Lake for OW classes)
They have a repair shop. (They take care of the Police's dive equipment)

The internet is just a tool. How many have you gone to the LDS, knowing what you wanted and the price it was at?

The internet shopping is just for lazy people like me who just doesn't want to take their cars and go to the LDS just to grab something and go. It simplifies the SEARCH, PRICING and PAYMENT.

It's a tool. That's it.

 

[scubafanatic]

I usually try to buy from my LDS but for some reason they seem to want to drive me away. I ask them to order me a QD hose. A few weeks go by and I call them. They said they are going to check on it and call me back the next day. Never did. A few more weeks go by and I stop by and same story. They will check on the order and call me back tomorrow. Weeks went by again. I order from LP on a Monday morning and I have it at my door on Wednesday. Also, I just ordered something from ScubaToys this morning and it's already shipped. That's service!

On another similar note, I have been told by another LDS that I am killing his travel business because I won't book trips thru him but instead I get a group of friends together and book our own travel. He was furious when he found out that the dive resort we are going to next gave us a 10% discount and we got the free spots as well. He said that resorts should go back to the "old days" when only dive shops got those perks. He doesn't seem to understand that resorts have to do what they can to fill up rooms. We are a seasoned group of divers that don't need to pay "full price" to go on a dive trip so someone from the shop can go for free.

The internet has not only changed the way we can buy gear but how we travel as well. I like the "new way" better!

...over the years I've noticed that dive shops that rarely carry items in stock and/or take LONG periods of time for orders to arrive are one step away from death's-door, meaning these are symptoms of severe cash flow problems signaling imminent closure/bankruptcy, I seen this pattern repeat numerous times here locally before a dive shop 'died'.

 

[Will_Evo]

Just from my little experience I can already tell the attitude towards online purchases from shop to shop. I bought all of my gear online and was debating hooking everything up myself but figured I'd ask around for some help first. The first shop I stopped by asked me where I bought the gear to which I replied LP. He said very plainly "I won't help you" and started to explain why but before he could I turned around and walked out. I decided to start calling shops instead of going in and the very next shop I called said come in at 2 tomorrow and they will help me out.

Right there, just in these two experiences, one shop picked up a paying customer and the other lost one forever. I will likely tip the shop helping me generously and do business there again. Now that I have done all my major shopping and saved nearly $1000, I will have no problem paying a bit extra in an LDS for future equipment purchases since the bulk amount of money will be much lower for a single piece.

It doesn't make sense to me that a BUSINESS would turn away paying customers. $30 here, $30 there can add up quickly and build a customer base. A customer base that just so happens to still be in the market for a computer, boots, gloves and little accessories here and there like a gear bag, communication equipment and a dive flag. Anyway, it just surprised me how quickly I got turned down...I guess $300-$400 isn't worth anything in some places

-Evo

 

[k ellis]

Just from my little experience I can already tell the attitude towards online purchases from shop to shop. I bought all of my gear online and was debating hooking everything up myself but figured I'd ask around for some help first. The first shop I stopped by asked me where I bought the gear to which I replied LP. He said very plainly "I won't help you" and started to explain why but before he could I turned around and walked out. I decided to start calling shops instead of going in and the very next shop I called said come in at 2 tomorrow and they will help me out.

Right there, just in these two experiences, one shop picked up a paying customer and the other lost one forever. I will likely tip the shop helping me generously and do business there again. Now that I have done all my major shopping and saved nearly $1000, I will have no problem paying a bit extra in an LDS for future equipment purchases since the bulk amount of money will be much lower for a single piece.

It doesn't make sense to me that a BUSINESS would turn away paying customers. $30 here, $30 there can add up quickly and build a customer base. A customer base that just so happens to still be in the market for a computer, boots, gloves and little accessories here and there like a gear bag, communication equipment and a dive flag. Anyway, it just surprised me how quickly I got turned down...I guess $300-$400 isn't worth anything in some places

-Evo

Evo your correct. If a dive shop sold say 30 pairs of boots at 30 dollars a pair. that would be 900 dollars they made. Its a far cry from the BCD they try to push on you for 900 dollars and easily found online for 600 but it is in fact money coming in.

One thing I have noticed is alot (Not all) of dive shops tend to go by the gambling effect of they wont stop gambling till they strike it rich. If they cant make enough on a sale to go to Hawaii for a week then they look at you like your scum.

I too buy the bulk of my gear online as it only makes sense. No diver is doing himself or the dive shop any good if he goes broke trying to dive. I support my local shops here (Both of them) as they both have strong attributes.

As you can imagine just ask around long enough and youll find negative feed back on either dive shop as both do have some drawbacks. One is staffed by the owner and he for the most part is the sole employee. While he is doing very well for a relatively small customer base we have in Tulsa a good day of buisness sales can slow down his reg repair and order placements significantly. Likewise a slow day of sales allows a relatively quick turn around of gear upkeep.

The other dive shop is well staffed and has on site pool (which the first one does not but does in fact have a pool available just about a 5 to minute drive away) the instructors there are what really make it a blast though. I really have to say he spared no expense in getting the best instructors he could find. They are also very good with students and boast a very low washout rate for divers. (I have not personaly seen but 1 person say they gave up dont know if they did or not) but the store has been around since the 90s.

I used to wonder how they were staying in buisness but I found just after going through dive master that scuba does appear to be showing at least in my eyes signs of picking up somewhat. Rather frequent classes and often times almost packed.

Dive shops to me are kind of like what you would see in the old days where you can go and hang out and meet other divers like they did other folks in small towns way back when. Dive shops have that distinct advantage over the internet shopping and they have for years provided a refuge from the rest of the world a place to where a diver can be a diver and just talk diving.

Yes things are changing for the dive stores in the fact that at one time long before the internet you could run a dive shop and really make a fat profit on the fact you were one of the only places people could go to shop for the gear they needed. But like anyone who works a well paying job when the boss says they have to cut your pay or let you go due to budgets of course owners get a little upset. Some have said what the heck and went on to start very lucrative and attractive shops.

I can speak from experience that when I went to scubatoys I was amazed at how they have done so much and built a thriving online empire for dive gear yet when you go in to the store you realize its just as much a part of the experience as the internet side of the buisness is. You walk in and see a pool where classes are given and gear is tested out. You see racks and racks of gear a diver may need right on hand. This is the future of dive shops and alas the empire of the internet is as available to any dive shop as it is say scubatoys. Savy shoppers love to day dream about dive gear. They love to windown shop at home and compare prices.

One thing I love about online shops is alot of them have customer reviews that are for the most part unfiltered. I can read a review of a product they sale and if it sucks someone will tell about it. If you ask a shop about a product they sale most of the time they wont down play it. They want the money so of course their products are the finest money can buy.

I have noticed in my dive master class experience that there are far more divers who are entering the dive community daily then I ever thought previously. With so many potential life long divers entering the community LDS owe it to their passion as much as the students to encourage the sport and not throw out prospective divers who purchased online. After all a person who buys say a pair of slingshots from leisure pro and has a minor problem that a more seasoned diver can fix and brings it into a dive shop. A store owner looks at it and notices that with the tweek of a wrench or a simple 1 minute fix and the diver is good to go will be an act the diver will not soon forget and may have not only earned a customer but also a diver who will stay in the field.