Do you think humble divers are usually safer divers?

[g8trdiver]

drbill is on a roll here with the innuendo today! :gotcha:

I must say - I'm a thirtysomething married to a fiftysomething. We met on a dive trip to Cayman Brac. He's definitely a keeper - as a dive buddy, and in every other way!

And yes, (in the interest of staying on-thread) he's a humble diver, too.

 

[scywin]

Thanks for the clarification. I agree with you completely and I hope my posts reflect that.

 

[tssplash]

This is exactly what I was talking about when I said that it's the FIRST (not only) character quality I look for in a potential buddy IF I'm faced with having a different buddy.

Yes, humble divers are more approachable to talk to, and will usually be more honest with you about their experience, and skill, and weaknesses. Even if they are highly experienced divers they'll explain to you any potential complications, or limitations that might arise during your dive.

A humble diver usually doesn't go around boasting, belittleing less experienced divers, and going on, and on about how much better, or how expensive their newest, latest piece of designer dive gear costs.

The biggest thing I've seen overall though has to be this macho overcompetitiveness. If it's a little sideline thing all in fun between friends, that's one thing. But some divers seem to think it's a status thing. These are most usually the same people who seem to have this overwhelming need to compete, or feel like their better, or more important than others.

No thanks, I'll take a humble diver as a buddy anyday, because humble divers are usually teamplayers. Teamplayers definitely make better buddies.

"Splash"

 

[tssplash]

I agree with you to a some degree about females usually being more humble divers, and I'm sure alot of that may have something to do with them not feeling that excessive need to compete.

I dove with a woman, who happens to be an Instructor last week. She was a great diver, as are most of the women I've dove with in the past.

I have to admit however that I have seen a handful of women divers who act this way as well, and one who has a terrible attitude when it comes to teamwork. I simply refuse to dive with her anymore. The one that I am referring to is an Instructor also, and I guess she feels as though she has something to prove. I have assumed that she feels that in order to get the respect she is seeking, she must act even more macho, competitive, (or more like an arrogant butt) than the others she intends to outdo, or get acceptance from. (which ever here ultimate goal is)

I hate to see this. It seems like a never ending circle of ignorant behavior that's going on. She has great skills, but she wants to lead all the time, she swims like its an underwater marathon, and she'll leave a group or a buddy behind in a minute. It doesn't effect me because I am a solo diver, thus I'm equipped as a solo diver, but I've talked to other divers who are not set-up for solo, and they complain of surfacing to find her, and she still doesn't surface until 20 minutes later, saying I thought you were still behind me. If she didn't look back to see if her buddy was there for 20 minutes, I'd certainly feel sorry for her buddy who had a serious emergency situation at 100 feet.

Oh well, enough of this negative stuff. It's beginning to get depressing. Thanks to all who have responded. Especially the ones who have understood my meaning, and potentially come away with a better understanding. I know it's helped me understand it a bit better than I did before. After all that is the point of all this, right? Take care, and safe diving to you all.


"Splash"

 

[Falconer]

I dont know if experience alone makes for a good buddy.
I have felt more safe with some less experienced divers
because they tend to take less for granted. I understand all decisions ultimately are mine but I would think the more experienced diver would be weighing risk options with more insight than a new diver, I have found this NOT to be true from my experience. A diver with more experience in most cases would be more capable of asisting you if you had trouble but I wouldn't count on them to keep you away from trouble, this will be up to you ! In regards to the ego thing, I have seen plenty of egos
and agree with the original poster, I'm trying to find a t-shirt
that reads " IF YOUR NOT MY BUDDY DONT BUG ME". I've
seen a direct correlation between experience and the inability
to keep ones yap shut !

Kevin Falconer Fort Myers, FL

I'll take a humble diver with 100 dives over a know it all with
500 anytime !

 

[Bob]

Splash,
Your statement: "Do you think humble divers are safer divers"?
Divers is more than one, multiple, several, all. To me and most logical thinking people, this meant all humble divers. Is that a reach? I think not. I'm sorry if my answer didn't fit your preconceived notions of humble divers. You asked for honest opinions and I gave mine, but you didn't like it. I didn't read anything into your question, just answered the question as you asked it. Grow up dude. :tree: Bob

 

[Falconer]

It was as though they were in a race - first in , first down fastest trip, first one back to the boat. It made for a very tense trip.
To make matters worse the "extra" couple were a couple of Instructors who insisted on telling everyone else how things should be done - even when they were wrong. This got very old - very fast.


This behavior happens all too often and is usually found in
the more "experienced" divers. Not only is this hasty behavior
unsafe but it's very discourteous to other divers who may
not be as "jacked up" as they are. I've witnessed this with
dive operators as well. They're the first ones to rush you into
the water and the last ones to admit to anything when something
goes wrong, perhaps something related to your hasty entry
brought on by either other divers or the operator. If I'm preparing at a safe and prudent pace and a dive operator rushes me I dont
go back.

Kevin Falconer Fort Myers, FL

 

[diverbrian]

Falconer once bubbled...
It was as though they were in a race - first in , first down fastest trip, first one back to the boat. It made for a very tense trip.
To make matters worse the "extra" couple were a couple of Instructors who insisted on telling everyone else how things should be done - even when they were wrong. This got very old - very fast.


This behavior happens all too often and is usually found in
the more "experienced" divers. Not only is this hasty behavior
unsafe but it's very discourteous to other divers who may
not be as "jacked up" as they are. I've witnessed this with
dive operators as well. They're the first ones to rush you into
the water and the last ones to admit to anything when something
goes wrong, perhaps something related to your hasty entry
brought on by either other divers or the operator. If I'm preparing at a safe and prudent pace and a dive operator rushes me I dont
go back.

Kevin Falconer Fort Myers, FL

As you may or may not know, experience does not equal ego. I believe that a humbler diver is safer than a egotistical diver of the same skill level. I have an instructor who is a cave diver and my role model. This man will tell you that he is still a rookie and he has been diving in caves for years. He does NOT offer unsolicited opinion on anyone's skill and/or set-up. For instance, I have had conversations with him that indicate that he is not a deep air diver (He much prefers tri-mix.), but he will dive with somebody who chooses to do this. Personally, I agree with him on that issue and I haven't learned tri-mix. Therefore, it will be a couple of years before I venture below the 130 ft range. He is a combination of high experience and skill with humility.

I know of other divers who feel that everybody else is unworthy of their high level of skill. Fortunately, these people won't dive with anybody but their regular buddies (AND NO, I am not talking about a certain group of divers on this board. This is not a bash on them at all. These divers are far worse in this regard than the ones on this board.)

Unfortunately, many of us fall somewhere in between. For those of us that do, I re-iterate my first statement. In my humble opinion, two divers are safe as long as they are humble enough to recognize their limits and stay within them. They run into problems when there egos push them into dives or manuevers that exceed their skill level regardless whether they are OW with the five dives needed for certification, "experienced" wreck divers that would laugh a standard recreational diver off a boat, "experienced" cave divers, or Instructor Certifiers who have been diving for years. Ask yourself why a diver would do this and you have your personal answer to the question debated in this thread.

 

[etype]

Humility...i think is wisdom in a sport like diving. It seems to me sport diving is one of the few wilderness exploration sports where it a regular situation to have the more experienced swim off and leave the inexperienced, who are trying to follow...in the wilderness.

In a reverse of the scenario........i had a weird dive today...i was the guy snafu’d. i was invited for a labourday campout and swim with a dive school...i met the instructor, a beautiful woman, on the dock a few days ago and she invited me out for the dive&campout. When we got there, I wanted to dive in a shorty...but she said ‘no....you’ll freeze to death’. and she said it very warmly. She brought out this dryshell suit and talked it on me as i protested...it was way too small....she wouldn’t let me take it off and i could hardly move with it on. I had to do whatever she asked.

And then we go diving..she was on a surface interval ...students and other divers doing photography, no designated masters, right at the start, at around 80’, a girl was straggling behind out of viz range along the wall, her boyfriend left her behind...so i was going to swim with her... as i got over to her...i went right up beside her and signaled ‘ok’..and then saw a ‘buzzbomb’ fishing lure right beside her in the weed, i reached over to pocket it and was snagged by a floating cloud of monofiliment fishing line, a whole reel worth floating in the weed beside her that was invisible in the shade....in a second i was tied like a turkey. It was snagged from my fin buckle, behind to my first stage and over my back, to my wrist computer on my leftarm and across my chest...(how did i get wrapped like this? not sure...it was just all over me) And the suit being so small i couldn’t bend foward or from side to side enough to loosen it up by bending my torso enough to unflex the lines. I’m cutting line after line trying to be careful with this borrowed suit , and one of the lines that went over my shoulder, pulled my mask off as i tugged, and then i couldn’t see anything...but the girl swimming away. She thought i was inspecting the wall...
I had slight negative bouyancy and i’m sinking and my mask is gone, and i can’t get to my inflator because the hand not holding a knife has a cloud of line wrapped around it that pushes away my inflator...i can’t see and i can’t move normally because of this over tight suit... ridiculous...all snafu’d. It took concentration to cut myself free enough to inflate and rise to the surface. Even on the surface i couldn’t cut enough line off to swim properly...i had to pullout on shore and spend a few minutes with my knife to even get one fin off. Three treble hooks were stuck into this borrowed drysuit. And the line was a good part of a trolling reel...it had clips on it..stupid to run a downrigger this close to shore...and three trebles off one line is poaching and illegal.
I didn’t make a big deal of it. I got the impression the other divers who left this girl out of sight, thought i was responsible for getting into a situation...one up for them. The girl didn’t know what was going on... the line is invisible untill your a foot away from it. But If she’d had a hand out or drifted two feet to the left it would have been her in that spool. That was just about the 9000th time i’ve seen how important it is to find out where your girlfriend is straggling. There is more than one way to lose her, especially on a dive. Even if in this case it was me who was snagged and looked the fool... i’m used to handling problems on my own... That snag was nasty at one point.

So , tangentital to the question-’egotistic and humble divers’. I wasn’t in peril...cutting myself free of snags i’m prepared for...but if it for someone else alone it may have been different. i think ego, or not looking out for other divers, is an accident waiting to happen.., maybe not to the one with experience...but maybe a new diver who’s straggling and complicates the dive...by distracting with probs, taking up time, or maybe ending up in serious peril because someone didn’t take the time.

 

[g8trdiver]

Falconer - I agree about how some operators rush everyone off the boat. I will be going to Key Largo as my sister does her first boat/ocean dive, and the one thing that is foremost in my mind to advise her is: "No matter how much you feel you're being rushed - you take the time you need to get ready. Take deep breaths and just concentrate on your equipment and buddy. They're not going to "close the pool" if you're not off the boat in 2 minutes!".
That was always one of the biggest stressers for me until I realized how silly it was to buy into it. Sometimes, I happen to be in the water first. Sometimes I'm not. BTW - offshore operators are not such drill-instructors about this. I find that interesting.

etype - I think I'm going to print your post, if you don't mind, and carry it with me in my log book. It's a great example of how quickly you can get hosed up with no one around to assist you - even in a group of several divers! I reiterate that recreational diving is a sport done in Buddy Teams (or has something changed that I wasn't aware of??????). But lately it seems like "Hey - you're on your own bud" is the attitude of many divers. I'm also going to make sure I get new cutting implements to carry with me.... I don't think you came off looking like a fool. Divers shouldn't be so clueless about what's going on with their fellow divers. I'll even forgive you for implying that it's only "girlfriends" who straggle (or take off, as the case may be).

In my opinion - if my buddy and I stop to observe something (eel, lobster, whatever), and I turn upside down over a ledge or something to take a picture, when I look back up and my buddy's beyond viz, I'm not gonna like it too much. The person actively deciding to swim off after stopping to look at something should be sure their buddy is aware of the decision to move on. If you're moving out of viz range of your buddy, and you look back to see that he/she isn't following, or doesn't know you're swimming away, go back and communicate (communication skills - another trait of the humble diver?).