Does a DM have responsibility?

[pafindr]

OK.....I learn something new everyday. What did I learn today? I learned that I was looking up to the DM because in my eyes he is better trained and experienced than me.This was a mistake. He/she is only there to............brief the site. Nothing more. Does this sum it up? I keep hearing about gear setup and weight and........I NEVER said I wanted someone else touching any of my gear. Nor do I want someone breathing or swimming or blinking for me, as some of you have stated. Most NEW divers are going to look up to all of you DM's....... Sorry, I will never do that again.

I don't think anyone said that a DM was only there to brief the site. They can be great guides, and they can be a wealth of information but it is your responsibility to make sure you come back alive.

On a boat if the DM isn't going in the water he is there to assist the Capt. does that mean they can't help you? No, but their primary reason to being there is to assist the Capt.
If you hire the DM to dive with you it is his job to guide you in the water and to provide SOME care. It's your responsibility to follow the dive plan.
DO NOT look up to someone because of their title. Use them as someone to learn from as long as they can back up their title with proper words and actions.
There are lots of divers out there that are OW, AOW, etc with more experience than I and are great divers that I look up to. They've shown that they can be trusted.
On the other hand there are DMs and Instructors with way less experience and crappy attitudes that I can swim circles around. They've shown they CAN'T be trusted in words or actions.

 

[elan]

then you ___should have___ SOME ___responsibility___. 2 minutes of your time ____could____ keep a new diver from making a wrong decision.

These 3 words are not semantically compatible

 

[soltari675]

I don't feel a DM has the responsibility to watch over all the new divers. That can be too much demand on the DM. That's why we have training for each environment and type of diving, so you can take care of yourself.

HOWEVER, I will say that when a DM, or any diver for that matter, takes the extra time to give me helpful information, you can bet I am paying attention. I like to learn from those willing to offer information, but I don't expect anyone to teach me unless I am paying them to do it.

When I was in Florida, it was my first ocean dive. I made it clear to the DM ahead of time that it was my first, and that I was also just approaching 25 dives. I didn't expect him to watch over me, but to keep it in mind when they chose a site that day. That DM sat down after the general boat briefing was done and gave me extra information that the locals there already knew. He also asked if I was ok ascending alone if I ran low on air first, so that I could stick near him during the dive, which was fine with me. I really appreciated the extra effort he made, and tipped him for it too. It meant a lot that he made the extra effort. Did I expect it? Not really. But it was a very pleasant surprise. Although I have a feeling I would be just as grateful for any diver that did this, not just a DM.

 

[Colliam7]

I am fairly new to diving.... I KNOW that I am responsible for my own safety and I take it very seriously! . . . I look to the DM on the boat as the leader......He is the one with the experience and the training that helps keep him safe. . . . From what I read on here....the DM is not responsible for anything...but maybe showing us some pretty fish! Do all of you DM's here TRY to keep the new divers from making mistakes???

You may be referring in part to some of the comments in the thread that Greek started about a recent Cozumel experience, where there was an assumption about the DM's role that may not have been altogether consistent with what DMs often do. You ask some good questions.

Short answer is - it depends.

Jim summed it up very succinctly - it really does depend on the circumstance. Part of my response to your question comes from DMing, and part of it comes from being a group leader on charter trips, where there may also be some implied 'responsibility'. My thoughts:
1. On coastal charters in NC, a primary role of the DM is often to set an anchor line on a wreck. So, s/he goes in the water before the divers, and frequently the signal for the divers to start entering the water is when the DM surfaces. Or, s/he may surface, reboard the boat and brief the conditions on the wreck, but then stay on the boat until the last diver reboards and then jumps back in to release the anchor. So, expecting the DM to be available during the dive is not practical in that situation.
2. Whether you 'interview' the DM before a dive or not, it is a very good idea to ask, in the dive site brief that s/he or the captain gives, exactly what the role of the DM will be during the dive. Will they even be in the water during the dive, for example? If I am in the water with a group during a dive, I will generally keep an eye on the group at large, but I am seldom in a position to 'watch' everyone. If someone has specifically asked me to 'keep an eye on' them, I will make a reasonable effort to do so. But, I am there as a resource for the group.
3. If a diver comes to me before we get in the water, and asks for advice / help, I will do whatever I can to assist. If they ask me to 'keep an eye on' them during the dive (as above), I may have to say, 'I will try but, my primary responsibility has to be . . .' whatever it happens to be, according to what the captain wants / needs. I may go in before a group, set a line, stay down for most of the dive, but then ascend ahead of divers, to help them re-board (and then go back to release the anchor). As Jim said, 'it depends'.
4. I am happy to help any diver, new or experienced, who asks for help. I am less likely to spontaneously interject my opinions when I see divers gearing up, unless they have done something clearly wrong (like forgetting to turn on their air). There are a lot of divers who react very negatively to 'scuba police', and you don't get very far with some of those folks, even when you try to help. I MIGHT ask about a gear configuration I see that seems a bit unusual (not 'unsafe', just uncommon) - in a non-threatening way - 'Interesting way to run that hose. How well does that work?' - to open the door for discussion. Or, if a diver appears clearly uncomfortable, or uncertain about their gear, I may say, 'How are you doing today?', or 'Nice rig, is that new?', or 'Anything I can help you with?' If they say, 'No.' then I will say, 'Great. Let me know if you need any help.' and leave it at that. Or, underwater, if I see a diver who appears to be having some stress, I may swim up and give them the 'OK' sign, to see how they respond. Again, it depends.
5. Finally, just because someoine is a DM, they are not necessarily as mature, experienced, and capable of helping divers, new or experienced, as you might perceive as optimal. Even if they are instructors working as DMs on a charter, in some cases they may (unfortunately) be as interested in the pretty divers as in the pretty fish. That is not the rule by any means, only a way to point out that not all DMs (irrespective agency, by the way) are not equally responsible.

 

[The Kraken]

I think we need to make a distinction here between, what I perceive to be, two different definitions of dive masters:

1: A trained professional engaged in the business of teaching, educating and/or assisting, for hire, in a diving environment.

2: A dive boat employee assigned with the responsibility of dessiminating pertinent information among the chartering customers, and perhaps, because of his familiarity with the dive site, providing guidance to keep the customers from becoming disoriented or lost.

Might help steady the boat . . .

the K

 

[scottf24]

1: A trained professional engaged in the business of teaching, educating and/or assisting, for hire, in a diving environment.

You make a good point...as most of the Replys do. And the above is what I was referring to. Collian7 hit the nail on the head.......this is all that I THOUGHT the DM was....or I will say SHOULD do.
I had the honor of working with a couple of DM's that did not take the extra step to give advice or even care (when asked). And this along with some other post that I saw here created the PROFILE of the DM that was stuck in my head.
After I get more dives logged and deal with more DM's........this will go away. Thanks to all of the good replies, I now know what to expect from them.
I should have found this site weeks BEFORE I started my training, it would have made me understand more that was going on around me.

 

[shmuggy]

You have to be responsible for yourself and your buddy- relying on the DM assumes way too much. First of all- a lot of times they don't even get in the water- so you can't count on them even being there. Even when they are there- someone else may get into trouble and need their help. Also, you have been trained to handle things when there is a problem. Think of the worse things that can happen and then plan what you would do if it happened to you- talk it over with your buddy. That way if something bad happens, you will be calmer because you will have a plan. It has been shown that when things go bad- the people who stay calm are most likely to live. Panic is the enemy. Most DMs work really hard to make sure everyone is safe and enjoying their dives but relying on them isn't fair to them or you.

Legally, you are responsible for your self- that is why they train on what to do if the equipment fails, someone kicks your mask off, you get caught in a current at the surface, etc.

 

[TSandM]

Scott, I'm not trying to imply that you shouldn't regard the DM or instructor on the boat as someone more experienced than you are (although, if you review agency standards, the DM may not be a whole LOT more experienced than you are). I'm not suggesting that you not view them as a source of information, and someone of whom to ask questions. You SHOULD "look up to them" to some extent, because it's likely they know more than you do.

Where I get testy is how that translates into behavior and procedures underwater. The DM CAN check your gear, if you ask, to make sure you have mustered it properly. The DM CAN answer any questions about the site, or how a new diver should best manage the profile or the navigation. The DM should (although I wonder how many CAN) be able to help you plan your dive, including topography, decompression and gas limits, and the logistics of getting back to the boat. (Most DMs, in my experience, are happy to do this.)

But once you are in the water, you are your own diver. YOU need to control your buoyancy; YOU need to watch your gas. YOU need to keep comparing the dive course to the briefed one, and if you're hoplessly bewildered by the nav, YOU need to keep the group and guide in sight. You need to monitor the air in your tank, and YOU need to know what the "drop dead" value is that means you need to be heading up, no matter how enticing the things you are seeing may be.

Look up to people with more experience than you have, by all means. Ask questions of them. Lean on them a bit for navigation, if you need to. But for every dive, make sure you are taking down the skills and knowledge that will allow you to solve problems and end up on the surface, uninjured.

 

[Mike]

The DM responsibility issue is an interesting one.

On the one hand when push comes to shove most DMs will fall back on "a certified diver is responsible for himself underwater', yet a hour later the same DM might be telling a diver involved in photography who was lagging behind on the last dive to stay with the group on the next dive.

So which is it? I'm here only to jump in the water with you or you're under my charge? Seems it's whatever the DM at the time wants to choose.

I know you'll notice a definite tendency on Bonaire for any DMs you're with will have a very, very, hands off approach to you on any boat dive with a DM. It's pretty obvious why they have this mentality there. It just goes to show you that things are different depending upon where you are at.

 

[BrianKon]

OK.....I learn something new everyday. What did I learn today? I learned that I was looking up to the DM because in my eyes he is better trained and experienced than me.This was a mistake. He/she is only there to............brief the site. Nothing more. Does this sum it up? I keep hearing about gear setup and weight and........I NEVER said I wanted someone else touching any of my gear. Nor do I want someone breathing or swimming or blinking for me, as some of you have stated. Most NEW divers are going to look up to all of you DM's....... Sorry, I will never do that again.

Hi scottf24,

I understand your original post about how everything you may have read is the DM is not responsible for anything, not a babysitter, etc. But this latest post is disturbing to me.

I would hope what you've taken from this forum is that not all DM's are created equal, just like not all instructors and dive shops are created equal. Sometimes it takes a couple trips or charters to find that "mentor" or "helper". To say that you will never look up to a DM again is not a good diving practice, they can in most instances provide you with little tips that will make you a better diver.

I think what maybe you and other new divers are experiencing could be DM burnout, they are often overworked and underpaid, they get into the daily grind of working a job, and just may not care anymore. This is as much a dive shop issue as the DM's. But when you do find a good one, you will look forward to diving with them, plan trips and specifically request them for your guide. You may even want to take advanced lessons with them if they also happen to be an Instructor. Chances are if they are part of a larger dive shop, most of the other DM's will have similar traits, in this case you found a good dive shop overall and should feel comfortable diving with any of them.

Part of the DM training consists of identifying anxiety in your divers and speaking with them to ensure they are comfortable, answer questions, etc. This is not to be confused trying to train and educate you in an advanced skill, they do not carry the insurance to conduct training and may be reluctant to offer up such information, in that case an instructor is your best course of action.

I sincerely hope you reconsider not wanting to look up to a DM ever again. There are more good ones out there than bad.

I hope this helps, good diving to you

brian