Does a DM have responsibility?

[Teamcasa]

Dive Master and/or Dive Guides vary a great deal, depending on location.

From my experience, DM/DG that cater to tourist divers (Hawaii, Cozumel, and the like) have a different set of expectations from the divers they lead/guide. They do tend to take these divers under their wing and not only guide them to the good stuff and insure they see cool stuff but they also are there to assist should an issue arise.

Here in California, (and many other places) the DM stays on the boat. They are responsible to count divers, help fill tanks and assist divers jump in and get back on board. While there are the tourist minded DM/DG's here they are the exception.
Local divers want no part of following some DM/DG around underwater. When you get on a local California dive boat you are expected to be self-sufficient, competent diver or bring your own instructor/mentor with you.

When we travel we sometimes have a hard time adjusting and even recoil somewhat when we are told to follow some DM around. That's why we try real hard to book dives with operations that don't require that we follow someone.

Many brand new divers out here bring their own mentor or instructor until they are ready to be pushed out of the nest.

 

[fnfalman]

OK.....I learn something new everyday. What did I learn today? I learned that I was looking up to the DM because in my eyes he is better trained and experienced than me.This was a mistake. He/she is only there to............brief the site. Nothing more. Does this sum it up?

No. That doesn't sum it up. You should learn from this thread that:

a. You and your buddy are responsible for your dive.
b. Take advices from "experienced and better trained" divers (be they instructors, dive masters or experienced and learned joe schmoe divers) with a grain of salt.
c. Exercise that organic computer between your ears and evaluate these freely given information to see what makes sense to your situation.

I keep hearing about gear setup and weight and........I NEVER said I wanted someone else touching any of my gear. Nor do I want someone breathing or swimming or blinking for me, as some of you have stated. Most NEW divers are going to look up to all of you DM's....... Sorry, I will never do that again.

Sure, you can ask for opinions and advices and double-check with your gear setup. HOWEVER, as a certified diver, if you can't assemble your gears in a correct manners then you shouldn't be diving. Let me tell you why having dive masters checking your gears is not a good idea:

a. Everybody has their own ways of tweaking their gears.
b. DM's idea of gear setup is for the DM and not for you.

Most NEW divers would grasp at the first person that they thought is more experienced and trained than they. That is a habit that needs to be broken as soon as possible. A thinking diver is a good diver. Nothing wrong with gleaning information from experienced and trained divers. BIG WRONG comes in when you swallow it hook, line and sinker.

As far as actual DM responsibility go, it all depends. What arrangement have you made with this DM? Do you want this DM to be a tour guide and nothing more? Do you want this DM to help monitor your depth/gas/dive profile? Do you want this DM to set up your gears?

If I were to pay for DM service and want that person to do all of the above for me, then that's what I expect the DM to do for me. If I were to pay for the DM to control the dive, count the heads, maintain the roster, make surface rescue/surface assist, then that's what I expected from that DM.

Determine what do you want the DM to do for you and pay for that service accordingly.

Also, a DM is not an instructor. A DM isn't there to teach anybody anything. A DM could be a certified instructor, but definitely not operating as an instructor at that moment in time.

Communication, communication, communication. Let people know what your expectations are and they will let you know if they can accomodate you and for how much.

Being a DM is a pain in the ass. I wouldn't want to do it. If you try to be helpful, then some people will tell you to mind your own business and don't touch their gears or lecture them. If you let people be, then some people will tell you that you're not helpful enough.

 

[boulderjohn]

Dive Master and/or Dive Guides vary a great deal, depending on location.
....
When we travel we sometimes have a hard time adjusting and even recoil somewhat when we are told to follow some DM around.

Things do vary tremendously. I don't know that I have seen everything possible, but I am having a hard time imagining a version of DM I haven't seen.

The problem with that is indicated in the second part of the quote above. Divers leave their OW training and then enter the" real world" of diving. They compare that "real world" with what they were taught in their instruction and toss out whatever part of their instruction does not match the "real world." The problem is that in most cases, these newer divers will experience the same "real world" scenario over and over on their first dives and then decide that what they have experienced is the way the "real world" is everywhere. This causes a problem when they finally travel to a place that operates differently.

In the case Dave cites, people from Southern California are shocked to go to a place that not only puts a DM in the water, it requires you to follow that DM.

The opposite is also true. People whose first dive experiences are exclusively in places like Cozumel will travel to a place like Southern California or Florida and sit on the boat wondering why no one is setting up their gear, and why there is no DM giving them the dive plan and getting ready to lead them on that dive.

In several of the more recent classes I have taught, students have flat out told me that their diving friends told them they didn't really have to do any of the stuff I was teaching them about dive planning because in the "real world" the DM does all of that. If they and their friends go to the "wrong" place on their first dives after OW training, they will have a rude awakening.

Perhaps OW instruction should include a comprehensive discussion about what kinds of scenarios they will face in the "real world" so they can be prepared for the world they actually encounter.

 

[Krazytomdiver]

As a dive guide (PADI DM), Different situations call for different guidelines. My main concern is honesty in my interviews & dive questionaires. This gives me a "heads up" on what/who needs extra attention. I depend on ten years of experience,numerous contract dives,and a great safety/rescue record. Customer service is important but dive safety will always be number one.

"living life without a hard bottom"
KT

 

[fnfalman]

Perhaps OW instruction should include a comprehensive discussion about what kinds of scenarios they will face in the "real world" so they can be prepared for the world they actually encounter.

This is a great idea, except that if PADI/NAUI/SSI/TDI/GUE/IDEA, et al, were to acknowledge in an official format that a DM or a dive charter would do all the dive planning for them, then that will open a really bad can of tomato.

 

[Teamcasa]

..Perhaps OW instruction should include a comprehensive discussion about what kinds of scenarios they will face in the "real world" so they can be prepared for the world they actually encounter.

Open Water can not and should not be the end all - be all of dive instruction. Like you said John,

Things do vary tremendously. I don't know that I have seen everything possible, but I am having a hard time imagining a version of DM I haven't seen.....

That's why broad experience makes for better divers.