Does a regulator deliver gas below its IP?

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tinman once bubbled...
So tell me if I understand this correctly: downstream regs don't add any additional resistance to the process which would provide in the ideal CF world an additional 92.9 PSI for an OOA diver to get to the surface
Only if you waited 'til you got to the surface to use it. At any depth below the surface the available gas would be less.
And there is resistance to gas flow through the regulator filter and orifices, and through the hose. As suggested before, if you want to experience "how much?" resistance, take the dust cap off your first stage and breathe from your reg without hooking it up to a tank.
And while I don't recommend ever breathing a tank completely dry, it is a worthwhile exercise to breathe one down to a few psi in the shallow end of the pool just for the experience.
E. itajara
 
Epinephelus once bubbled...
there is resistance to gas flow through the regulator filter and orifices, and through the hose. {snip} And while I don't recommend ever breathing a tank completely dry, it is a worthwhile exercise to breathe one down to a few psi in the shallow end of the pool just for the experience.
E. itajara
...the real world experiences I have heard suggest you are likely to get a breath or two during this kind of ascent which is why it would be recommend to OW students to always keep the regulator in their mouth. I was curious about the dynamics and I suspected there would be some resistance to overcome in the regulator, filter, etc. since it isn't a straight path, nor a path without media of various types in the way...
 
tinman once bubbled...


Ok, my dumb question of the week. Does this mean then that actual tank pressure on an "empty" tank would be:

14.7 PSI @ surface
29.4 PSI @ 33 fsw/34ffw
58.8 PSI @ 66 fsw/68ffw
107.6 PSI @ 99 fsw/102 ffw

Uhhh, isn't it:

14.7 PSI(1 atm) absolute @surface
29.4 PSI(2 atm) absolute @ 33 fsw
44.1 PSI(3 atm) absolute @ 66 fsw
58.8 PSI( 4 atm) absolute @ 99 fsw

Otherwise, the standard IP of about 120 to 140 PSI would start to really suck much below 100 ft...
 
gzscuba once bubbled...


Uhhh, isn't it:

14.7 PSI(1 atm) absolute @surface
29.4 PSI(2 atm) absolute @ 33 fsw
44.1 PSI(3 atm) absolute @ 66 fsw
58.8 PSI( 4 atm) absolute @ 99 fsw

Otherwise, the standard IP of about 120 to 140 PSI would start to really suck much below 100 ft...
You are quite correct in your numbers for pressure. I am surprised my bud Epi missed that and I'll rib him endlessly when I see him for it.
But... IP is above ambient rather than absolute - that's why there's an opening to the sea in the first stage. Indeed, some of the newer regs from Apeks & AquaLung actually increase IP to something greater than surface IP more than ambient as you get deeper to improve breathing the thicker air.
Rick
 
gzscuba once bubbled...


Uhhh, isn't it:

14.7 PSI(1 atm) absolute @surface
29.4 PSI(2 atm) absolute @ 33 fsw
44.1 PSI(3 atm) absolute @ 66 fsw
58.8 PSI( 4 atm) absolute @ 99 fsw

...busted, me that is....
 
in regards to;
Otherwise, the standard IP of about 120 to 140 PSI would start to really suck much below 100 ft...
Modern regulators will provide pressure that is 120-140psi ABOVE ambient pressure. I am not talking about the gas running out here... that has been discussed. I am just pointing out that as the ambient pressure rises so does the absolute pressure of your IP. Thats why there is bleed or hole in your first stage... so that it compensates for the ambient pressure. Increased breathing effort at depth is more of a function of the density of the gas delivered and not the pressure differential. A balanced first stage will even compensate for the dropping internal gas pressures as well so that you get easy breathing all the way down to almost nothing.
 
Oh, I didn't realize (or maybe I forgot) that the IP is against ambient pressure. Thanks for the correction.
 
scubafanatic once bubbled...

That's interesting about how, if the IP is increased, it becomes harder to breathe, and that being the opposite of other regs on the market.

Yes that is true, the only other reg i can think of was a sherwood reg made i think at least ten years ago that was a dead nock off of the odin. But the machining on the parts seam to be different. I've seen poseidons with sherwood parts in them and they never work right.

I understand the IP on the Odin is a bit higher than average for regulators on the market today.

145 psi is not that uncomon. many regs out there have a maximum setting of 145 psi (all scuba pros a few sherwoods, etc etc.

I have a question about getting the Odin to breathe the way I want. I like a fairly low cracking effort, but it seems when it's set that way it's prone to a little free flow on the inhale. At the end of an inhalation, but before the exhalation, the 2nd stage wants to 'burp' a bit (it vents a little air during the pause between inhale and exhale).....which is annoying. I've noticed when I put the 2nd stage switch into the " - " position it stops doing this.....but of course increases the breathing effort.


This can possibly be 2 different things.
Inside the barrel where the baloon seals could be either coroded(no longer a smooth sealing surface), over lubed or under lubed, the baloon could no longer be soft and pliable.

OR

The servo valve on the end of the shaft could be shot.
the servo is especialy prone to damage by a sloppy service tech.
you dont want to wobbl the the end of it back and forth or drop it on the work bench. (very very very senesitive device)

So

first thing to do is check out that ballon and housing.
If that dosen't do it you can put the servo valve in an ultrasonic cleaner w/ some white vinegar (or sutable cleaning media) and see how that works out.

What would happen if the IP were increased? Could the Odin be set up so that, if one increased the IP, it would be less likely to vent that 'extra' air? Also, would increasing the IP lower the PSI at which the Odin will ultimately free flow, allowing one to get to use that last bit of air in a tank instead of it free flowing and going to waste.....in an emergency I'd rather get to use that last bit of air, and have it last as long as possible.

Also, if the IP were increased, the 'ballon' would fill up faster, shutting off the air , which would seem to be a good way to prevent any free flow, which I'd appreciate, as my 2nd stage, even out of the water, is prone to leak air ever so slightly (slight hiss)...which is annoying.

I don't know what that will give you. I think that will just make the whole rig more touchy. Plus with the higher ip you are putting more strain on the second stage components.

You should try the sugestions for the second stage first.

I assume adjusting the cracking effort is independent of the IP too? I'd like the cracking effort low, but the IP set 'high' , so that the air turns on and shuts off completely and as quickly as possible. Is this a set-up you'd recommend, or am I missing something? How high can the IP be set without damaging something in the Odin?

Karl


they are independent of each other for the most part.
making changes on the ip will have affects on the second stage.

:doctor:
 

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